Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Z (Muslim)
Bismillah-hir-Rehman-ir-Rahim (In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful)Please post your questions or misconceptions you have about Islam. I will Inshallah (which means hopefully) try to clarify. You can also try to prove to me a single thing in Islam which is bad. A single thing. I am just asking for one.
I must congratulate you on your self-confidence in your mastery of Islam so as to be ready to answer any question about Islam. One thing in Islam that is bad is its claim that it alone is the true religion.Will you prove to me a single thing in Islam that is good which has not been said before elsewhere? A single thing.
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Killed for not wearing Hijab
There's this news that a father killed his daughter for not wearing the hijab. Does this count as what is wrong with Islam?Pakistani Canadian kills daughter over hijabToronto: A young Pakistani Canadian girl's refusal to wear the hijab cost her her life. Sixteen-year-old Aqsa Parvez was strangulated by her father Muhammad Parvez in their home in the suburb of Mississauga, police said.Parvez, 57, called the police after the early morning incident on Monday. When police and ambulance reached the two-storey home in suburb, which is dominated by South Asians, they found the girl in an unconscious state. She was rushed to a nearby hospital and later shifted to a hospital in Toronto and put on life support system. But it was of no avail. Aqsa died on Monday night.Parvez was arrested and later remanded to police custody. Aqsa's classmates at the local Applewood Heights Secondary School said the girl had problems with her family for some time as she refused to wear the hijab, the headdress worn by Muslim women in some countries. On her father's insistence, they said, she would wear the hijab while leaving home only to replace it with trendy clothes when she reached school. They recalled how she would sometimes run to the washroom to change into modern dress.The incident has shocked modern Muslims across Canada. Toronto-based Sonia Ahmed, who runs the Miss World Pakistan and grooms Pakistani-origin girls for Miss Bikini and other pageants, said angrily: "The hijab was never a part of Pakistani dress. It is an Arab imposition. This should be banned all over North America. This killer father will now think that he has done the `right thing', and he can now go to heaven and claim his 70 virgins. Hang him." "Ninety-nine percent of our girls want to be free. But because of parental restrictions, they are forced to live dual lives. At home, they live as their parents want. But outside, they have all the fun," Ahmed told IANS.For various reasons, she said, Pakistanis don't want to blend with Indians "whose culture is all dance and song. So they end up with the Arab immigrants. Hence, this Arab culture and hijab among Pakistanis". "But we Pakistanis are South Asians and the South Asian culture is different. Zia-ul Haq started the hijabisation of Pakistan when started his Islamisation drive. He invited Arab Wahabi scholars who married Pakistani women and started the hijab tradition."Ausma Khan, editor-in-chief of Muslim Girl magazine, was also outraged: "It is a tiny minority for whom the hijab is an issue. Many of our readers in the 18-24 age group say hijab is an expression of their personality. It is their choice, not anybody's imposition."Opposing parental impositions on young girls, she said, "I am sure the tragedy will spark a debate on what is wrong with the Muslims and the issues surrounding the hijab. But this tragedy is an example of a cultural and generational conflict."
There's this news that a father killed his daughter for not wearing the hijab. Does this count as what is wrong with Islam?Pakistani Canadian kills daughter over hijabToronto: A young Pakistani Canadian girl's refusal to wear the hijab cost her her life. Sixteen-year-old Aqsa Parvez was strangulated by her father Muhammad Parvez in their home in the suburb of Mississauga, police said.Parvez, 57, called the police after the early morning incident on Monday. When police and ambulance reached the two-storey home in suburb, which is dominated by South Asians, they found the girl in an unconscious state. She was rushed to a nearby hospital and later shifted to a hospital in Toronto and put on life support system. But it was of no avail. Aqsa died on Monday night.Parvez was arrested and later remanded to police custody. Aqsa's classmates at the local Applewood Heights Secondary School said the girl had problems with her family for some time as she refused to wear the hijab, the headdress worn by Muslim women in some countries. On her father's insistence, they said, she would wear the hijab while leaving home only to replace it with trendy clothes when she reached school. They recalled how she would sometimes run to the washroom to change into modern dress.The incident has shocked modern Muslims across Canada. Toronto-based Sonia Ahmed, who runs the Miss World Pakistan and grooms Pakistani-origin girls for Miss Bikini and other pageants, said angrily: "The hijab was never a part of Pakistani dress. It is an Arab imposition. This should be banned all over North America. This killer father will now think that he has done the `right thing', and he can now go to heaven and claim his 70 virgins. Hang him." "Ninety-nine percent of our girls want to be free. But because of parental restrictions, they are forced to live dual lives. At home, they live as their parents want. But outside, they have all the fun," Ahmed told IANS.For various reasons, she said, Pakistanis don't want to blend with Indians "whose culture is all dance and song. So they end up with the Arab immigrants. Hence, this Arab culture and hijab among Pakistanis". "But we Pakistanis are South Asians and the South Asian culture is different. Zia-ul Haq started the hijabisation of Pakistan when started his Islamisation drive. He invited Arab Wahabi scholars who married Pakistani women and started the hijab tradition."Ausma Khan, editor-in-chief of Muslim Girl magazine, was also outraged: "It is a tiny minority for whom the hijab is an issue. Many of our readers in the 18-24 age group say hijab is an expression of their personality. It is their choice, not anybody's imposition."Opposing parental impositions on young girls, she said, "I am sure the tragedy will spark a debate on what is wrong with the Muslims and the issues surrounding the hijab. But this tragedy is an example of a cultural and generational conflict."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mujahid Mohammed
So are you implying that Islam permits this. So if Islam does not allow something and people do it can that be considered something in islam. So if Muslims worship Jesus as God is this also Islam? How can something that is not allowed in Islam be considered something wrong with it? Are you saying Islam should allow this injustice?
Originally Posted by Mujahid Mohammed
So are you implying that Islam permits this. So if Islam does not allow something and people do it can that be considered something in islam. So if Muslims worship Jesus as God is this also Islam? How can something that is not allowed in Islam be considered something wrong with it? Are you saying Islam should allow this injustice?
I understand what you are saying and agree with you. But as a non-Muslim, unless I am given to scholarly studies of Islam, I would naturally see Islam through the actions of its practitioners.
How do you look at the Nazi's as Christians or the Branch Davidians. What about the IRA do you look at them as christians. or do you look at the people living in the time of Jesus who walked with him and believed in him as the true christians and examples. If you want the scholarly studies. Here you go Arees Institute This is my teacher, my sheihk. If you are serious contact them, purchase the course and learn our religion. This is what muslims are taught. This is what our scholars teach from our sources, which by the way is common knowledge. For the sources are easily accessible and their are no secrets or hidden meanings or codes. It is what it is. Islam is something defined. That is why the Messenger of Allah forbid us to add or subtract to anything he brought. the definition became sealed and established. Cannot be altered or changed. if it is not something the Messenger of Allah or the companions did. We do not do it. If we understand Quran different then the way they understood it. we are incorrect in belief. If we do things and react to situations in ways other then the way they did it, we will be wrong in our actions. if we it other then their way we are wrong. Like I said. the hadith of Abdullah ibn Masa''ood. A great sahabi told a tabi'een the second best generation, when he himself was from among the best. He said if you want to follow a path. Follow the path of those that are dead. The path of the Messenger of Allah and his companions. for the living of among you may fail in their trials and tests.
What kind of sense does that make? so I guess Adolf Hitler is the criterion for measuring christians. Or maybe the actions of this government, Bush, and the UN.
Adolf Hitler did not commit his crimes in the name of Christianity. He was more on to race consciousness and conjured a pure Aryan race and all that. But Osama Bin Laden is doing everything in the name of Islam. He and his Taliban buddies want to create Islamic states with Shariat as the constitution.
In Mein Kampf Hitler writes that Jesus "made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross." Hitler rejected the idea of Jesus' redemptive suffering, stating in 1927:"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."I believe that ur statement was wrong.
well .....it's not tht u see osama reading out frm the qur'an and shooting people tht u blame him...im in no way for him....but we dont have the proof!!!it's only allegations.......wat is told to u is told by ur media reporters...........have u gone behind the scenes to know who's lying and who's not????tht u make sweeping generalisations....ur writing as if hitler subjected a kind of 'lesser crime' because he didnt read frm the bible before exterminating 6million jews...
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To get the scholarly studies, you need to read to start. Our books and scholarly information is available. You want to talk to a scholar or get the scholarly studies as you say. Here you go. An online islamic university you can attend to learn the religion from scholarly. Arees Institute this is my teacher, contact him if you want to know.
I will take your advice and look up Arees Institute.
The second thing is when someone tells you something then why don't you try accepting it as their truth instead of mixing your own interpretation of the religion. .
You are saying we should not be prejudiced. I entirely agree with you. Nevertheless, if we have doubts, wouldn't we continue questioning?
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Maybe it is unfair to judge a tree by its spoilt fruits but unfortunately it is such fruits (fruitcakes?) that tend to be in the news and catch our attention and make an impression.
You are not even looking at the fruit. Are you looking at the Messenger of Allah as the example, His companions or those that Allah said got His religion correct. this is who we as muslims look at as the tree and they are the fruits. For they are what happens when people submit. for they are doing Islam. I am not sure what these suicide bombers and kidnappers are doing, but this is not what Muhammed did.
Muslims today are not the fruits. The companions of the Messenger are the fruits. We are the tainted fruit, for the deviant muslims are adding to the religion, hence why we have sects. Their were no sects with the companions. They were the ones who did it right as I said. the people today are failing in their trials and tests. Not sure why you would use them as the example.
You seem to be saying that except for Mohammad and his companions, it is almost as if Islam has not worked on the rest.
You want a scholarly source yet you always reference the news. I didn't know Bill O'reily and others were scholars on our religion.
selection bias ...
See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Since the topic of this thread is, "What do you feel is wrong with Islam?" and since the annual pilgrimage of Hajj is only a few days away, I may state that it has always baffled me why goats, sheep and camels are sacrificed at the end of Hajj. Commemorating Abraham’s sacrifice is worthy and Allah was mighty pleased with Abraham. But fattening goats and slaughtering it as special ritual is, according to me, a mindless and uncultured act, if by culture we mean the refining of man to greater sensibilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Since the topic of this thread is, "What do you feel is wrong with Islam?" and since the annual pilgrimage of Hajj is only a few days away, I may state that it has always baffled me why goats, sheep and camels are sacrificed at the end of Hajj. Commemorating Abraham’s sacrifice is worthy and Allah was mighty pleased with Abraham. But fattening goats and slaughtering it as special ritual is, according to me, a mindless and uncultured act, if by culture we mean the refining of man to greater sensibilities.
What's wrong with feeding the poor?
What if poverty is finally alleviated? Would the ritual still be continued?
tht is only ur supposition......obviously tht's never gonna happen...poverty is here to stay on this planet until the end of time!!!
How much you seem to be clapping your hands in glee. "Therefore I can have my animal sacrifice till the end of time!!!"
zenzero
Friend Venu,You know very well that anything when it becomes an organistion then egos/minds come into play which is true even for business/ charitable/ etc besides religious.That way one can keep finding faults BUT the question is does that help ME grow to get down deep inside me where the source of life is waiting for me?The question one should ask, what is wrong with ME?Nothing is wrong with you, my friend.Its the MIND each one has that is doing all these tricks.Silence that very MINd and you are HOMe, you are one with everything/existence/nature/god/etc.Love & rgds
zenzero
Friend Venu,You know very well that anything when it becomes an organistion then egos/minds come into play which is true even for business/ charitable/ etc besides religious.That way one can keep finding faults BUT the question is does that help ME grow to get down deep inside me where the source of life is waiting for me?The question one should ask, what is wrong with ME?Nothing is wrong with you, my friend.Its the MIND each one has that is doing all these tricks.Silence that very MINd and you are HOMe, you are one with everything/existence/nature/god/etc.Love & rgds
Fantastic. I would have offered you all the frubals in the kitty, but I've decided not to touch frubals in the virtual world as I've decided not to touch money in the real world. So I simply want to say you've put in a nutshell all the wisdom of the sages. You are indeed Sage Zenzero.
The symbolism is in the attitude - a willingness to make sacrifices in our lives in order to stay on the Straight Path. Each of us makes small sacrifices, giving up things that are fun or important to us. A true Muslim, one who submits his or herself completely to the Lord, is willing to follow Allah's commands completely and obediently. It is this strength of heart, purity in faith, and willing obedience that our Lord desires from us.During the celebration of Eid al-Adha, Muslims commemorate and remember Abraham's trials, by themselves slaughtering an animal such as a sheep, camel, or goat. The meat from the sacrifice of Eid al-Adha is mostly given away to others. One-third is eaten by immediate family and relatives, one-third is given away to friends, and one-third is donated to the poor. The act symbolizes our willingness to give up things that are of benefit to us or close to our hearts, in order to follow Allah's commands. It also symbolizes our willingness to give up some of our own bounties, in order to strengthen ties of friendship and help those who are in need. We recognize that all blessings come from Allah, and we should open our hearts and share with others.
mr venu gopal i beleive tht ur not informed well.............firstly these animals r in large proportions r given as food to the poor,the underpriviledged.....2.if u stop slaughtering animals this would create a problem for u sir,overpopulation of cattle.i dont get it!! u havent made it clear ..r u against slaughtering any animal or only against many animals........if ur against any animal i could start a veg vs non veg deabte here....but even if u r against a lot of cattle being slaughtered u need to understand tht it is largest gathering of the beleivers(if i cut a goat in my backyard u dont have a problem but if i do it at hajj u have a problem:i beleive with all respects double standards...
Firstly you must thank Allah that there are poor people to absolve you of your guilt of massacre of dumb animals. Secondly, thanks for taking care of the overpopulation of cattle. What about overpopulation of humans? Hajj is not the largest gathering of believers - that credit goes to Kumbh Mela in India, only the believers are Hindus and though 80% of Hindus are meat-eaters, during Kumbh Mela not a single animal sacrifice takes place. There are no double standards. Individuals may be at various levels of evolution and may prefer non-veg to veg. But when we are talking of religions functions, to be not only non-veg, which can be understood because congregations are made up of individuals, but to have a sacred ritual of animal slaughter at sacred Mecca is somewhat unbecoming from the sensibilities point of view.
ur logic is relating to the sri sri ravi shankar's termed as 'uttarka' i.e. to define an illogical statement u use reverse logic.............first of all poverty is a human creation....if god gives u a solution ,u blame him for creating a problem he never created!!!!!(it's like ur blaming god for global warming at this pace)
According to you, God's solution for poverty is to slaughter goats during Hajj and distribute 1/3rd of it to the poor.
why not?? poverty leads to hunger leads to need of food!!!!ur statement is itself an answer......
'overpopulation of humans'...tht's hilarious.......the exponential rise of humans is not even close to comparison as tht of cattle(who start mating at the age of 2)............
I think by linking the sacrifice of goats commemorating Abraham’s sacrifice to a method of solving the overpopulation of cattle is truly stretching the logic. Is it said in the Quran that Allah intended to do away with excess cattle by this ritual or is it your argument to justify an malevolent and uncompassionate act in the name of a benevolent and compassionate Allah?
why do u say excess cattle????there r excess cattle slaughtered because there r excess people!!simple logic.........i gave u the example where when i cut a goat in my backyard u seem to have no problem ,but when 1 million muslims cut 1 million goats u start crying!!!!!
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when i say largest gathering of beleivers my reference is beleivers of islam..anywaysif u say no animal sacrifice takes place ..well but tht does not deter u frm not eating vegetarian food(my dear even plants cry as they die,even they feel pain)......so it is double standards eventually whether u try to justify animal slaughter in congregations as rit or wrong(tht means i can slaughter a goat when im alone but i cant do it when there r people around me).......
Again the meat eater is justifying his lack of culture (if culture means heightening of sensibilities) when compared to a vegetarian by arguing that vegetables have life. What then is wrong with cannibalism? Nothing, except we would associate such folks with a lack of culture. Though I am not a Jain, I consider their religious practices of not seeking to kill even a fly a culture that is emulation-worthy. One must have humility to accept others can be better than us at least in some ways.
ur logic says tht all lower animals r as superior as us whereas plants r inferior hence can be cut and eaten....i see tht highly pityful...........there is everything wrong with cannibalism.........to begin it is a scientific fact tht the effects of cannibalism r more to do with psychology and changes in the individual.......eating pure cattle meat by all means is permissible.it never has a toll on individual negatively and tht's proven!!!!and there's nothing u can do to prove it false......
huh!!! jainism is all pretentious to say the least!!!!ur changing the words , they dont say u shouldnt harm a fly, but they say they can never harm a fly!!!!!emulation well be my guest i dont have any interet in emulating a hypocritic culture......those fools claim not to eat meat because they say u become wat u eat, u eat animals u become like them!!!i answer them simply alrit we eat all peaceful animals like sheep, cow, goat..all peace loving animals no tigers or lions hence we become wat we eat , we become peace loving!! such foolish is their beleif!!!!!!
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with no offence it is rather bombastic to say to be holy by making the waters unholy!!!!and do very little to reapair tht problem!!
That the waters of Ganges is holy is an article of faith among many Hindus. A harmless article of faith, I would say, when compared to slaughtering cattle in the name of Allah and justifying it as a method of reducing cattle population!
yes indeed polluting the ganges is harmless according to u ,ofcourse thts the logic i expect frm an indu!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace
The symbolism is in the attitude - a willingness to make sacrifices in our lives in order to stay on the Straight Path. Each of us makes small sacrifices, giving up things that are fun or important to us. A true Muslim, one who submits his or herself completely to the Lord, is willing to follow Allah's commands completely and obediently. It is this strength of heart, purity in faith, and willing obedience that our Lord desires from us.During the celebration of Eid al-Adha, Muslims commemorate and remember Abraham's trials, by themselves slaughtering an animal such as a sheep, camel, or goat. The meat from the sacrifice of Eid al-Adha is mostly given away to others. One-third is eaten by immediate family and relatives, one-third is given away to friends, and one-third is donated to the poor. The act symbolizes our willingness to give up things that are of benefit to us or close to our hearts, in order to follow Allah's commands. It also symbolizes our willingness to give up some of our own bounties, in order to strengthen ties of friendship and help those who are in need. We recognize that all blessings come from Allah, and we should open our hearts and share with others.
But why do you want to make the poor goat a scapegoat? Why don't you, like Abraham did, prepare to sacrifice your own son (or your neighbour's son!) and see if Allah will sacrifice a goat before you actually get to your sacrifice? I am sorry if my question seems rather abrupt but I am seeking to get to the truth.
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zenzero
Friend Venu,Thanks/no thanks for everything/nothing.Must say that you are very organised and methodical in approach rather your mind is.[eveident from the way you answer each response]. Fantastic qualities there.Can surely vouch that the same qualities used for getting inwards will pay rich dividends.Try it. become a sage yourself.Though am an ordinary being [no sage] am willing to be of any assistance that would be possible in your trails and tribulations. The god in you is just waiting for you my dear friend; please respond to him.Love & rgds
zenzero
Friend Venu,Thanks/no thanks for everything/nothing.Must say that you are very organised and methodical in approach rather your mind is.[eveident from the way you answer each response]. Fantastic qualities there.Can surely vouch that the same qualities used for getting inwards will pay rich dividends.Try it. become a sage yourself.Though am an ordinary being [no sage] am willing to be of any assistance that would be possible in your trails and tribulations. The god in you is just waiting for you my dear friend; please respond to him.Love & rgds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popeyesays
I find NOTHING wrong with the revealed word of God--the Qur'an, nor the Prophet Himself.It is only when men have seen fit to misinterpret the word of God and the teachings of the Prophet for their own purposes that any problem arisers.That said--this is true with all revelaled religion.Regards,Scott
All reading is always an interpretation by the reader. The trouble is when there is something like an official interpretation and we are not allowed to deviate and interpret for ourselves. Official interpretation should be valid only for governmental matters, not for subjective religious matters.
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