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http://www.cislamonline.com/cms/showthread.php?p=4709#post4709
Did Allah create life?
The Quran says Allah created life. Does it mean Allah had no life till He created life? If Allah always had life, then how could He claim to have created life?
assalmu alykum
what for quation is THIS?
WassalamKhadijah
Dear Sister, I did not mean to startle you with my question. I've based my question on logic. I am not a Muslim and therefore am not obliged to accept everything in the Quran on faith. At this point in time, I feel the Quranic claim that Allah created life is illogical, for the reason I have stated. I am sure you feel my position can be countered logically. I look forward to hearing from you.
aerocaria
Allah is the Creator
AslamoAlikom Brother, The word life in reference to your query, is about 'haya' which in other words means our lives and the creation of our beings. It does not mean 'existence or beginning' - Allah subhana wa taala, is by Himself the Beginning, and the ever immortal - known also as Al Qaiyum.When it states that He created life, it means that we, the humans, the nature, the animals, the earth, the heavens and hell all 'living' things were brought to life (living is a word that is derived from life). Allah however cannot necessarily be classified as 'living' as He the Creator is Divine and not related to our 'life'. That is why, we believe in the One and Only and should not compare Him to anything or anyone else, as His unique presence is the Most Dominant, Most Powerful. I hope this satisfies your question.I am posting another article about "What Quran Says About Life" for further review.Best Regards,Usman Hussain
Dear Brother Usman, I might be on the way to being satisfied with your answer. However, when you say "Allah cannot necessarily be classified as living", you could mean that we cannot compare the way we live our lives with the way Allah lives His. But surely you do not mean that Allah is not living and is therefore dead. Either Allah exists or He does not. Even if in Arabic there are different words for Allah's life and our life, can both words mean anything other than life? Please clarify.
Dear Brother Venugopal, its my pleasure to answer your questions and I thank you for asking about our religion. Both the Bible and the Quran tell us God has always existed and there never was a time He did not exit. As such, He is the Eternal, without beginning and without end. He is the only creator and sustainer of all that exists and nothing and no one exists alongside Him, nor does He have any partners. He tells us, He is not created, nor is He like His creation in anyway. He calls Himself by a number of names and three of them are:The First - (Al-Awal)The Last - (Al Akhir)The Eternal and the One who is sought after by His creation, while He has no need from them at all. (As-Samad)He is not a man and He has no progeny or offspring.He is not what He creates nor is He compared to it.He always has existed and He never was created, as He is not like His creation, nor similar to it, in any way.The Quran tells us:Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (There is no god to worship except Him), the Ever Living, the Sustainer and Protector of all that exists. He doesn't get tired and He doesn't sleep. Everything in the universe belongs to Him. Who then, could intercede between Him and his creatures without His Permission? He Knows everything about them and they have no knowledge except as He wills. His kursi (stool or chair) extends over the entire universe and He doesn't get tired of guarding and preserving it. He is Most High, the Most Great.[This Verse is called Ayat-ul-Kursi.] [Holy Quran 2:255]This verse truly presents the comprehensive representation of God in a way without trying to define Him by comparing Him to His creation, but rather as being the Absolute in all of His Attributes and Characteristics. Your Answer By Example"Can Allah make a rock so big - nothing can move it?" - If He did make a rock so big nothing could move it, would this mean He couldn't move it too? Or would it be impossible for Him to make something so big He couldn't move it?"Allah tells us "Allah is capable of doing anything He Wills to do." It should be noted in Islam we understand Allah never Wills to do anything that would make Him no longer be Allah. That is to say, He would never die as this would mean He is no longer "The Eternally Alive" (one of His characteristics mentioned in the Holy Quran).Therefore, He can make a rock (or anything else for that matter) so large or heavy - nothing in the entire universe can move it. As regards Allah "moving" it, He is not in the universe and He does not resemble His creation. Therefore, Allah is never subject to the Laws of the Creation because He is both the Creator and the Law Giver. Whenever He wants anything done, He merely says "Kun! Fayakun!" (Be! And so it will be!)Speaking about Himself, Allah says:The Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a matter, He only says "BE!" - and it is.[Holy Quran 2:117]She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me?" He said: "So (it will be) for Allah (God) creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: "BE!" and it is.[Holy Quran 3:47]Verily, the likeness of Jesus before Allah (God) is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "BE!" - and he was.[Holy Quran 3:59]It is He Who has created the heavens and the earth in truth, and on the Day of Resurrection He will say: "BE!", - and it shall become. His Word is the truth. His will be the dominion on the Day when the trumpet will be blown. All-¬Knower of the unseen and the seen. He is the All-¬Wise, Well-Aware (of all things).[Holy Quran 6:73]Verily! Our Word unto a thing when We intend it, is only that We say unto it: "BE!" and it is.[Holy Quran 16:40]It befits not Allah (in His Majesty) that He should beget a son. Glorified and Exalted is He. When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "BE!" and it is.[Holy Quran 19:35]Verily, His Command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it, "BE!" and it is![Holy Quran 36:82]He it is Who gives life and causes death. And when He decides upon a thing He says to it only: "BE!" and it is.[Holy Quran 40:68]Creation as we see from these verses, is not a difficult thing for God at all. He merely gives a Command and everything comes about according to His Will.I hope this would satisfy your Question, and should you have any more questions, feel free to ask them.To Be Noted: The word "He" is used when referring to Allah out of respect, dignity and high status. It is not correct to associate the word "He" with gender, as this would be comparing Allah to the creation, something totally against the teaching of Quran.Best RegardsUsman HussainIndeed Allah knows the Best.
aerocaria
Dear Brother Usman, I admire your reply. It is the standard reply of a Muslim trying to explain matters to a non-Muslim. However, a non-Muslim often comes with his own religious view and in trying to understand Islam he tends to juxtapose his understanding with Islam’s viewpoint. Therefore you must forgive me if I seem to be somewhat incorrigible. It might only be a passing phase.You have sought to define Allah and, because of the very nature of our capacity to understand things, you have had necessarily to, as anyone else would have had to, compare Allah and man. What is apparent in the comparison, apart from the element of Allah being unknowable, is that Allah is eternal, absolute, all knowing, all powerful etc. while His creation is ephemeral and limited. The difference is one of degrees and not of kind. I give a response below to show that the difference between Allah and His creation is only a matter of degrees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
God has always existed and there never was a time He did not exit.
Allah exists eternally, man exists ephemerally. But for at least a concurrent period, both Allah and His creation co-exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
He is the only creator and sustainer of all that exists
Allah is not the creator and sustainer of all that exists. The computer exists. Man created it and sustains it.
That is a very good example and I would carry the example to answer your queries. Suppose, your computer has created a website. So the credit goes to the computer or the programmer who did it. Same as if human created something.... the credit still goes to who created human.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
nothing and no one exists alongside Him, nor does He have any partners.
For a short-duration, His creation exists alongside Him. During this short period he required the partnership of Gabriel and Mohammad to herald Quran to the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
He tells us, He is not created, nor is He like His creation in anyway.
I contend that He is like his creation in at least one way, both He and his creation has life - only He has life eternal whereas creation’s life span is ephemeral.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
He calls Himself by a number of names and three of them are:The First - (Al-Awal)The Last - (Al Akhir)The Eternal and the One who is sought after by His creation, while He has no need from them at all. (As-Samad)
All the names He calls Himself by (or are they terms man calls Him with?) are human terms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
He is not a man and He has no progeny or offspring.
Isn’t creation His progeny or offspring?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
He is not what He creates nor is He compared to it.
Of course, that which is eternal cannot be compared with the ephemeral but as they both need the other at least ephemerally, they can be compared as fellow travellers for a period of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (There is no god to worship except Him), the Ever Living, the Sustainer and Protector of all that exists.
Which also means that all worship is worship of Allah except the worshipper may not know it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
He doesn't get tired and He doesn't sleep.
But He certainly knows what it is to be tired and to sleep. For Allah cannot create what He does not know of. Moreover, to know something is to have experienced it. Why should we deny Allah any experience? We would have to say, relatively speaking He does not get tired or He doesn’t sleep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
Everything in the universe belongs to Him.
And therefore He belongs to everything in the universe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
Who then, could intercede between Him and his creatures without His Permission?
When there is nothing except Allah and His creation, where does the question of intercession and permission arise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
He Knows everything about them and they have no knowledge except as He wills.
Maybe Allah might one day will totally and we might one day know everything about Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
His kursi (stool or chair) extends over the entire universe and He doesn't get tired of guarding and preserving it. He is Most High, the Most Great.
In using the words chair, tired, high, great etc., we are only using words familiar to man. This proves that even if Allah is beyond man’s conception, He necessarily has to be brought within the ken of man’s conception or man would miss Him altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
This verse truly presents the comprehensive representation of God in a way without trying to define Him by comparing Him to His creation, but rather as being the Absolute in all of His Attributes and Characteristics.
Every single representation of Allah in the Quran is a representation of comparison to man’s reality. There is no other way for man to know Allah. Only the absolute might understand the absolute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
Allah tells us "Allah is capable of doing anything He Wills to do." It should be noted in Islam we understand Allah never Wills to do anything that would make Him no longer be Allah. That is to say, He would never die as this would mean He is no longer "The Eternally Alive" (one of His characteristics mentioned in the Holy Quran).
If Allah cannot will anything to make Him no longer Allah, it means that Allah is not omnipotent. Allah is Allah only to His creation or in relation to His creation. What is Allah to Allah without His creation? It could be everything or nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
Therefore, He can make a rock (or anything else for that matter) so large or heavy - nothing in the entire universe can move it. As regards Allah "moving" it, He is not in the universe and He does not resemble His creation. Therefore, Allah is never subject to the Laws of the Creation because He is both the Creator and the Law Giver. Whenever He wants anything done, He merely says "Kun! Fayakun!" (Be! And so it will be!)
Quoting precisely what Allah says (Kun! Fayakun!) is rather suspicious. Does Allah speak Arabic? Couldn’t He say it in a different language? Or couldn’t He say it without a language? Or need he say it at all? Can’t everything simply happen as He would have wished for it even without His wishing for it? So long as creation exists, He is subject to the laws of creation. He is also subject to what He has promised man through the Quran.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
It befits not Allah (in His Majesty) that He should beget a son. Glorified and Exalted is He. When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "BE!" and it is.[Holy Quran 19:35]
Why should it not befit Allah that He should beget a son? Hasn’t He just to say “BE” and a son become?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
He it is Who gives life and causes death. And when He decides upon a thing He says to it only: "BE!" and it is.[Holy Quran 40:68]
When it is said that Allah gives life, I agree. He can give it because he has it. But just as, as you say, He cannot do anything to make Himself not Allah, He cannot create life. Since He is uncreated, He always has life. Creation has to be a new product. Since Allah has life, the question of His creating it does not arise.I understand that in the Quran only once does Allah speak of creating life. In all the other places He talks about giving life. Which is why I wondered if it was a mistake in the Quran.Dear Brother Usman, While I am keen to understand Islam, you should not expect me to accept Islam on faith. I do not have a need to have faith for the simple reason that I do not have any needs except the most basic of physical needs. And of these physical needs, I would have no fear or unhappiness if it comes about that I am unable to fulfill it. I would simply say, “Inshallah!”Together with you in the search of Truth.K.Venugopal
aerocaria
Dear Venugopal,It would be my pleasure to answer your questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
For a short-duration, His creation exists alongside Him. During this short period he required the partnership of Gabriel and Mohammad to herald Quran to the world.K.Venugopal
Everything that Allah had created is for a purpose and He choose Gabriel and Mohammad Peace Be Upon Him to spread his message. Just like a computer programmer who wants to create something and he use a computer so he doesn't necessarily need any specific computer but any Intel P4 would work, it depends on his choice which one he selects. As programmer has all the options, why would he need to do a partnership, he just have to select and give the orders to fulfill what he wants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
I contend that He is like his creation in at least one way, both He and his creation has life - only He has life eternal whereas creation’s life span is ephemeral.K.Venugopal
When we use eternal, the meaning of word "life" vanishes as "life" is always for a certain period of time. There is no comparison of "Eternal" and "Life".
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
All the names He calls Himself by (or are they terms man calls Him with?) are human terms.K.Venugopal
Allah has 99 names and all those names are his own. I mean not human terms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Isn’t creation His progeny or offspring?K.Venugopal
Progeny or offspring means genetic descendant. Human created computer so is this make computer, human's genetic descendant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Of course, that which is eternal cannot be compared with the ephemeral but as they both need the other at least ephemerally, they can be compared as fellow travellers for a period of time.K.Venugopal
This is nothing but comparing a website programmer to an internet surfer. They both may use the net but internet surfer cannot be compared with the skills of the programmer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Which also means that all worship is worship of Allah except the worshipper may not know it.K.Venugopal
The purpose of creation of humans is to worship Allah. And Allah had sent many messengers (Prophets) to remind people the very purpose of their lives and Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him was the last Messenger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
But He certainly knows what it is to be tired and to sleep. For Allah cannot create what He does not know of. Moreover, to know something is to have experienced it. Why should we deny Allah any experience? We would have to say, relatively speaking He does not get tired or He doesn’t sleep.K.Venugopal
God has created in human what is best for them and necessary for their survival. If you do a mistake while using any word processor, you can Undo and continue your work. Can you do it in your real life? What is done is done and you can not change the past, but human creation i.e computer can revise its mistake. So in practical life this what you do not experience it but you know it. There are lot other many things, which you know about but practically you do not need to experience them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
And therefore He belongs to everything in the universe.K.Venugopal
In a way that you can own a property, property can not own you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
When there is nothing except Allah and His creation, where does the question of intercession and permission arise?K.Venugopal
This is an example for people who don't understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
In using the words chair, tired, high, great etc., we are only using words familiar to man. This proves that even if Allah is beyond man’s conception, He necessarily has to be brought within the ken of man’s conception or man would miss Him altogether. K.Venugopal
What if a Chinese comes to you and tells in Chinese language that you are a winner of some grand prize of 100 million $?
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Every single representation of Allah in the Quran is a representation of comparison to man’s reality. There is no other way for man to know Allah. Only the absolute might understand the absolute.K.Venugopal
An expert computer technician can understand perfectly about computer and its behavior... a computer can not understand its creator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
If Allah cannot will anything to make Him no longer Allah, it means that Allah is not omnipotent. Allah is Allah only to His creation or in relation to His creation. What is Allah to Allah without His creation? It could be everything or nothing.K.Venugopal
My example was: " Can Allah make a rock so big - nothing can move it?" - If He did make a rock so big nothing could move it, would this mean He couldn't move it too? Or would it be impossible for Him to make something so big He couldn't move it?"Allah tells us "Allah is capable of doing anything He Wills to do." It should be noted in Islam we understand Allah never Wills to do anything that would make Him no longer be Allah. That is to say, He would never die as this would mean He is no longer "The Eternally Alive". Therefore, He can make a rock (or anything else for that matter) so large or heavy - nothing in the entire universe can move it. As regards Allah "moving" it, He is not in the universe and He does not resemble His creation. Therefore, Allah is never subject to the Laws of the Creation because He is both the Creator and the Law Giver. Whenever He wants anything done, He merely says "Kun! Fayakun!" (Be! And so it will be!)"It doesn't mean he can not!
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Allah is Allah only to His creation or in relation to His creation. What is Allah to Allah without His creation? It could be everything or nothing.K.Venugopal
Allah is Allah with or without his creation just as humans are humans without their creation. Difference is humans created things to make their life easier, Allah created humans to worship him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Quoting precisely what Allah says (Kun! Fayakun!) is rather suspicious. Does Allah speak Arabic? Couldn’t He say it in a different language? Or couldn’t He say it without a language? Or need he say it at all? Can’t everything simply happen as He would have wished for it even without His wishing for it? So long as creation exists, He is subject to the laws of creation. He is also subject to what He has promised man through the Quran. K.Venugopal
As Prophet Mohammad was Arab, so the language of the Quran is Arabic. Scientifically Arabic is the most scientific language on earth. That means that the composition of this language is almost free from any error and represents the meaning perfectly. Allah can do anything He wishes, not necessarily he has to say it but as he created this universe for a "reason" so whatever happens here has a reason. For example, you got promoted.. not because your GM just wants so... but he said so... here what he said is the "reason". Anything you can image is a result of any reason. You can walk... reason is friction. Aeroplanes fly, reason is air and so on. So when Allah says BE, it becomes the reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Why should it not befit Allah that He should beget a son? Hasn’t He just to say “BE” and a son become?K.Venugopal
Allah has created what is best in favor of His creation. Thinking as a human prospective, humans need children to continue their heritage or to help them in their old age and many more reasons. Allah is Eternal and is free from all that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
When it is said that Allah gives life, I agree. He can give it because he has it. But just as, as you say, He cannot do anything to make Himself not Allah, He cannot create life. Since He is uncreated, He always has life. Creation has to be a new product. Since Allah has life, the question of His creating it does not arise.K.Venugopal
From your point of view I guess that all what humans have created, they already have it. I think its not the case. As I mentioned above that meaning of word "life" vanishes when it comes to eternal. Life is to Death. Eternal is Eternal. Life is the creation of Allah. What we believe is that a human consist of two things. Body and Soul. So Allah has created body and soul and when they two have a union we call it a living person. And as the soul departs, nothing in this world can give life to a dead body accept Allah.A very simple thing to understand that, when we think about computer, we know that somebody has made it, when we think about any picture, we know that somebody has shot it and when we think about a house, we know somebody has build it. So is this universe. Somebody is there who created all this and taking care of it very well. Even super computers that have potential to control the world are not automatic and monitored and controlled by somebody. I hope this may satisfy your questions. Should you have more questions, I am there.Best RegardsUsman HussainIndeed Allah knows the Best.
Dear Usman, I am glad that you are a patient person. Though you might not accept my position and I yours, I hope our exchange puts on record the possibilities of different view points on the subject of whether Allah created life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
That is a very good example and I would carry the example to answer your queries. Suppose, your computer has created a website. So the credit goes to the computer or the programmer who did it. Same as if human created something.... the credit still goes to who created human.
You said Allah created everything. But Allah did not create the computer. So where is the question of credit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
Everything that Allah had created is for a purpose and He choose Gabriel and Mohammad Peace Be Upon Him to spread his message. Just like a computer programmer who wants to create something and he use a computer so he doesn't necessarily need any specific computer but any Intel P4 would work, it depends on his choice which one he selects. As programmer has all the options, why would he need to do a partnership, he just have to select and give the orders to fulfill what he wants.
The moment Allah has a purpose and He chooses assistants, he has partners fulfilling his purpose. Whether partners or slaves, he is dependent of them for fulfilling His purpose. It is more honourable to call them Allah’s partners. Otherwise the charge would be that Allah is dependent on slaves. (Dependent on the dependents?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
When we use eternal, the meaning of word "life" vanishes as "life" is always for a certain period of time. There is no comparison of "Eternal" and "Life".
On the contrary, when we use the word eternal, we can only mean life. Life cannot die. When you and I die, it is only our bodies that “die”. (Even our bodies do not die, they transform into some other forms of life.) We, who are in essence life, take up other bodies to live. You cannot compare ‘eternal’ and ‘life’ because they are one and the same. What is ephemeral are only the forms that life takes up for living variously. We think we are limited because we identify with the body. Actually we are not limited, we are eternal Allah Himself, for we are life as Allah is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
Allah has 99 names and all those names are his own. I mean not human terms.
By the 99 names here you mean the expressions of His totality. Of course the names fit only Allah because man is only ephemeral. Nevertheless, men too carry these names, maybe indicating the true eternal nature of man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
Progeny or offspring means genetic descendant. Human created computer so is this make computer, human's genetic descendant?
Since Allah and His creation have a common denominator called life, Allah’s creation is surely Allah’s progeny. Progeny is not only the outcome of human sexual intercourse. Plants too have progenies. Computers are the outcome of human genius and have no common denominator with humans yet. When we are able to transmit our life into computers, then we may say computers are our progeny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
This is nothing but comparing a website programmer to an internet surfer. They both may use the net but internet surfer cannot be compared with the skills of the programmer.
The programmer would find his job meaningless without the surfer and the surfer would not be able to surf without the programmer. Both need the other when in interaction. Similarly, Allah needs His creation and vice-versa when both are in interaction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
The purpose of creation of humans is to worship Allah. And Allah had sent many messengers (Prophets) to remind people the very purpose of their lives and Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him was the last Messenger.
Islam says the purpose of humans is to worship Allah and be Allah’s slave. Hinduism says the purpose of humans is to discover Allah and become Allah. This is the fundamental difference between Islam and Hinduism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
God has created in human what is best for them and necessary for their survival. If you do a mistake while using any word processor, you can Undo and continue your work. Can you do it in your real life? What is done is done and you can not change the past, but human creation i.e computer can revise its mistake. So in practical life this what you do not experience it but you know it. There are lot other many things, which you know about but practically you do not need to experience them.
What we have done cannot be changed. But we can decide to do it differently if we get another chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
In a way that you can own a property, property can not own you.
Owning of property is a human arrangement. And sometimes when we are obsessed with our property, then it would seem that the property owns us!
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
What if a Chinese comes to you and tells in Chinese language that you are a winner of some grand prize of 100 million $?
I would not realize my good fortune, would I?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
An expert computer technician can understand perfectly about computer and its behavior... a computer can not understand its creator.
This is because there is no common denominator between man and his creations yet. But there is a common denominator between Allah and his creation and that is life and therefore each can understand the other, only man understands Allah in a limited way. I say once more, the only difference between Allah and man is that Allah is infinite and man is finite and during the period of co-existence of both the finite and the infinite, there is interplay between both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
My example was: "Can Allah make a rock so big - nothing can move it?" - If He did make a rock so big nothing could move it, would this mean He couldn't move it too? Or would it be impossible for Him to make something so big He couldn't move it?" Allah tells us "Allah is capable of doing anything He Wills to do." It should be noted in Islam we understand Allah never Wills to do anything that would make Him no longer be Allah. That is to say, He would never die as this would mean He is no longer "The Eternally Alive". Therefore, He can make a rock (or anything else for that matter) so large or heavy - nothing in the entire universe can move it. As regards Allah "moving" it, He is not in the universe and He does not resemble His creation. Therefore, Allah is never subject to the Laws of the Creation because He is both the Creator and the Law Giver. Whenever He wants anything done, He merely says "Kun! Fayakun!" (Be! And so it will be!)" It doesn't mean he can not!
Allah is formless life and we are life forms. The common denominator between Allah and us is life. Life by its very definition cannot die. Only life forms appear to die when it changes its forms. Allah cannot will himself to die. In fact we cannot say that Allah has life. He exists. Even when there nothing, He exists as nothing. Nothing becomes Him. Why? Because Allah is Life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
Allah is Allah with or without his creation just as humans are humans without their creation. Difference is humans created things to make their life easier, Allah created humans to worship him.
Allah created humans for Allah to take a look at Himself from a different angle. To play out the eternal possibilities. Allah celebrates in His creation. Allah does not have wants or needs like wanting humans to worship Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
As Prophet Mohammad was Arab, so the language of the Quran is Arabic. Scientifically Arabic is the most scientific language on earth. That means that the composition of this language is almost free from any error and represents the meaning perfectly. Allah can do anything He wishes, not necessarily he has to say it but as he created this universe for a "reason" so whatever happens here has a reason. For example, you got promoted.. not because your GM just wants so... but he said so... here what he said is the "reason". Anything you can image is a result of any reason. You can walk... reason is friction. Aeroplanes fly, reason is air and so on. So when Allah says BE, it becomes the reason.
Is Arabic the most scientific language in the world? I would like to read more about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
Allah has created what is best in favor of His creation. Thinking as a human prospective, humans need children to continue their heritage or to help them in their old age and many more reasons. Allah is Eternal and is free from all that.
The only difference between Allah and man is that Allah is eternal and man is ephemeral.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
From your point of view I guess that all what humans have created, they already have it. I think its not the case. As I mentioned above that meaning of word "life" vanishes when it comes to eternal. Life is to Death. Eternal is Eternal. Life is the creation of Allah. What we believe is that a human consist of two things. Body and Soul. So Allah has created body and soul and when they two have a union we call it a living person. And as the soul departs, nothing in this world can give life to a dead body accept Allah.
Life is eternal and death is life forms changing its forms. What is ephemeral are life forms. What is eternal is life. Soul is life. Allah did not create the soul. Allah is the soul. The soul in us functions in an ephemeral form. Allah is the eternal soul. In Sanskrit the soul in man is called Atma and Allah is called Paramatma.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocaria
A very simple thing to understand that, when we think about computer, we know that somebody has made it, when we think about any picture, we know that somebody has shot it and when we think about a house, we know somebody has build it. So is this universe. Somebody is there who created all this and taking care of it very well. Even super computers that have potential to control the world are not automatic and monitored and controlled by somebody.
If everything is created by a creator, then who has created the creator? You would say nobody created the original creator. Do you know why it is that nobody has created the original creator or Allah? It is because Allah is life and life can never be created. And Allah cannot create anything without life. Therefore all of Allah’s creation is but life itself. That is, Allah’s creation is nothing but Allah Himself in various forms.Which again means that all creation is life. And we can conclude by saying that the Creator is the creation and vice-versa. Though it may seem that we may not know the original creator except by his names Allah, God, Ishwar etc., we can logically see that there is one thing the original creator could not have created and for that very reason He is eternal – He could not have created life. And because man has life and is conscious that he has life, he can know Allah by knowing all about his life. That is, he can know Allah by knowing himself. Allah exists in all living beings.I look forward to hearing from you.With best wishes and regards,K.Venugopal
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
Did Allah create life?
It is said in the Quran that Allah created life. If Allah were to have created life, there would have been no life till He created it. If there was no life till He created it, Allah would have been dead till He created life. This is a logical absurdity. Can my brethren in Islam therefore please explain why it is said in the Quran that Allah created life?
AhLÄÄM
Can u explain this in english?!
Can u explain this in english?!
Creation means bringing forth something that does not exist. If Allah created life, then upto the point of his creation of life, there was no life. If there was no life, then how could Allah have had life? If Allah did not have life it meant He did not exist. How could a non-existent Allah create anything?
Sister-Ameena*
Well Allaah has no beginning or end, so you can't branch him under the same things as you've branched life and creations. He is the creator who brought forth the Universe and his beings to dwell in only to worship him.
Well Allaah has no beginning or end, so you can't branch him under the same things as you've branched life and creations. He is the creator who brought forth the Universe and his beings to dwell in only to worship him.
To be in a state of 'no beginning or end', that being must be alive. How could He who is alive always claim to have created life?
Sister-Ameena*
You're stating that it doesn't make sense for a creator to have lived before there was anything living, but if Allaah has no beginning or end then that means he's eternal. He is ever-Living, has always lived, and will continue to live.
AvarAllahNoor
Allah is immortal. He is neither born and nor does He die. - Akal Purakh.He is indescribable, inestimable, indubitable, infallible, intangible, imperishable, immutable, immortal, immaculate, immanent, unconquerable, unique, formless, fearless, deathless, timeless, ageless, compassionate, omnipresent and creator of all.
Allah is immortal. He is neither born and nor does He die. - Akal Purakh.He is indescribable, inestimable, indubitable, infallible, intangible, imperishable, immutable, immortal, immaculate, immanent, unconquerable, unique, formless, fearless, deathless, timeless, ageless, compassionate, omnipresent and creator of all.
Whatsthepoint
If god created everything, did he create himself as well...
If god created everything, did he create himself as well...
guyabano
Good question: Who created God then?
Good question: Who created God then?
MustafaMc
To start with quote for me an ayat of the Qur'an or an authentic hadith that states "Allah created life".Next define life. Well according to Merriam-Webster life is defined as: life 1 a: the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body b: a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings c: an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction Allah created the creation including all living things. That is not to say that He created the "quality", the "principal", the "force" or the "organismic state" that characterizes living organisms and separates them from the dead.Allah created man from clay and breathed of His Spirit (life) into him Quran 38:71 Behold when your Rabb said to the angels: "I am about to create a man from clay: 72 then when I have fashioned him and breathed of My spirit into him, kneel down and prostrate yourselves before him." Likewise, Jesus fashioned a bird from clay and breathed life into it. Quran 5:110 ...How you were able to make the figure of a bird out of a clay, by My permission, how you breathed into it and changed it into a real bird, by My permission...
To start with quote for me an ayat of the Qur'an or an authentic hadith that states "Allah created life".Next define life. Well according to Merriam-Webster life is defined as: life 1 a: the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body b: a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings c: an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction Allah created the creation including all living things. That is not to say that He created the "quality", the "principal", the "force" or the "organismic state" that characterizes living organisms and separates them from the dead.Allah created man from clay and breathed of His Spirit (life) into him Quran 38:71 Behold when your Rabb said to the angels: "I am about to create a man from clay: 72 then when I have fashioned him and breathed of My spirit into him, kneel down and prostrate yourselves before him." Likewise, Jesus fashioned a bird from clay and breathed life into it. Quran 5:110 ...How you were able to make the figure of a bird out of a clay, by My permission, how you breathed into it and changed it into a real bird, by My permission...
- Qatada -
Allah's attributes are different from human attributes, therefore to say that 'life' of humans is similar to how Allah is - is totally false. Since there is none like Him.Therefore the statement itself is flawed, since the concept of living has a totally different context and meaning for God compared to humans and the rest of creation.It's like saying - did Allah create speech? Yes, He created speech for humans, and mankind etc. However - His speech is not created since it is His attribute, and He did not create Himself - since He is Eternal without a beginning or end, and this is why He is Perfect, and this is why we take Him and believe in Him as God - since His Perfection implies His Lordship over His creatures who are dependant upon Him.
Allah's attributes are different from human attributes, therefore to say that 'life' of humans is similar to how Allah is - is totally false. Since there is none like Him.Therefore the statement itself is flawed, since the concept of living has a totally different context and meaning for God compared to humans and the rest of creation.It's like saying - did Allah create speech? Yes, He created speech for humans, and mankind etc. However - His speech is not created since it is His attribute, and He did not create Himself - since He is Eternal without a beginning or end, and this is why He is Perfect, and this is why we take Him and believe in Him as God - since His Perfection implies His Lordship over His creatures who are dependant upon Him.
Sister-Ameena*
No one created God, how can an absolute creator have a creator?
No one created God, how can an absolute creator have a creator?
Yeah, yeah, I get hat.But that makes it impossible for god to be the creator of all things.
- Qatada -
He is Eternal without a beginning or end, and this is why He is Perfect, and this is why we take Him and believe in Him as God - since His Perfection implies His Lordship over His creatures who are dependant upon Him while He is dependant upon no other.
He is Eternal without a beginning or end, and this is why He is Perfect, and this is why we take Him and believe in Him as God - since His Perfection implies His Lordship over His creatures who are dependant upon Him while He is dependant upon no other.
Sister-Ameena*
He is absolute and supreme, the premise of ''creation'' and ''life'' is not the same for his beings as it is for him. He's the over-seer of all things. If he oversees all things, then that means he has knowledge of all things. He created everything, what is hidden and what is apparent to us. He knows what we reveal and conceal. In all aspects of the word, he is supreme. ''Lam yalid, walam yulad'' - He does not beget, nor is he begotten. (Surah Ikhlas, V:3).
He is absolute and supreme, the premise of ''creation'' and ''life'' is not the same for his beings as it is for him. He's the over-seer of all things. If he oversees all things, then that means he has knowledge of all things. He created everything, what is hidden and what is apparent to us. He knows what we reveal and conceal. In all aspects of the word, he is supreme. ''Lam yalid, walam yulad'' - He does not beget, nor is he begotten. (Surah Ikhlas, V:3).
AvarAllahNoor
Well If you knew what the defintion of GOD was, you'd answer your own question. Plus I've summed it up very well in my previous post.
Well If you knew what the defintion of GOD was, you'd answer your own question. Plus I've summed it up very well in my previous post.
Quote: To be in a state of 'no beginning or end', that being must be alive.
To be alive is to have a beginning and an end. Therefore, if something has no beginning and no end, it cannot be said to be alive.
Quote: How could He who is alive always claim to have created life?
I see where you're going with this. I think this lies more in our understanding or misunderstanding of Allah's nature rather than His existence itself.I don't think Allah is really a 'being' in the same way His creations are. I think of it more in terms of a... consciousness. That's the closest word I can think of, and it's still a little off.
U see if u go along that road and ask these type of questions, u could also continue asking who created that god and who created the one before him and so forth(infinity!)Doesn't make sense, does it!To make it easier on ur mind first accept that there is one god! (Nothing is before him, and nothing is after him!)Don't get caught asking questions which will never have an answer to! Ur life will be a mess, because u going to end questioning stuff which will never be answered, NEVER!
Whatsthepoint
What's the islamic reply on this one:God is not created, he did not create himself.At least one thing in existence is not created (by god).God is not the creator of all things.The question itself arouses some new questions, which I'll try to do later..
What's the islamic reply on this one:God is not created, he did not create himself.At least one thing in existence is not created (by god).God is not the creator of all things.The question itself arouses some new questions, which I'll try to do later..
AhLÄÄM
Quote:
God is not the creator of all things. Are taking the mick?__________________
IbnAbdulHakim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
What's the islamic reply on this one:God is not created, he did not create himself.agreed
Quote:
At least one thing in existence is not created (by god). disagreed
Quote:
God is not the creator of all things.The question itself arouses some new questions, which I'll try to do later.. in order for something to be created it needs a creator. God never needed a creator and was never created.stop confusing yourself young lad.
czgibson
Greetings,Does anyone know why this thread is in the 'Introduce Yourself' section?Peace
uyabano
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamada
To make it easier on ur mind first accept that there is one god! (Nothing is before him, and nothing is after him!)Don't get caught asking questions which will never have an answer to! Ur life will be a mess, because u going to end questioning stuff which will never be answered, NEVER!Well, and here is the part, where our opinions split. I refuse to believe in something/someone whose existence has never been prooven.Science/Evolution is something I can touch and proove, but existance of God, no.In that case, my decision has been made.Peace__________________
Whatsthepoint
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
agreeddisagreedin order for something to be created it needs a creator. God never needed a creator and was never created.The reply does not satisfy me, it confuses me even further.God cannot be the creator of everything and at the same time not be created..
IbnAbdulHakim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
God cannot be the creator of everything and at the same time not be created..do you not realise the difference between a creator and created?EVERYTHING is created, and God is the CREATOR.hope thats clear now
Whatsthepoint
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
do you not realise the difference between a creator and created?EVERYTHING is created, and God is the CREATOR.hope thats clear now God is a part of everything.He is no created.Not everything is created yb God.
Abdul-Raouf
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
It is said in the Quran that Allah created life. If Allah were to have created life, there would have been no life till He created it. If there was no life till He created it, Allah would have been dead till He created life. This is a logical absurdity. Can my brethren in Islam therefore please explain why it is said in the Quran that Allah created life?
Hi Venu ... me too from india... nice to meet u...Welcome to LI...Can u please explain me more about your logic behind that sentence
IbnAbdulHakim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
God is a part of everything.thats a hindu belief.
Quote:
He is no created. agreed
Quote:
Not everything is created yb God. Disagreed, God created everything
AhLÄÄM
^ Lol I think ur on something, ur going round in circles. @ whatsthepointGet with it!!God is the Creator. If He is the CREATOR he does not need to be created.He created everything.Comprehende?!
Whatsthepoint
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
thats a hindu belief.I didn't mean it in that way, I know muslims believe he is above creation or soemthing liek that.Let me rephrase it...Everything is everything there is. God is. God is a part of everything.
-Ibn Al Aqwa-
When people begin trying to comprehend things they cannot, they begin confusing themselves and doubts are created. Them doubts are spurred by the shaytaan.just thought id say that...Salaam...__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
^ No he's not.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by -Ibn Al Aqwa-
When people begin trying to comprehend things they cannot, they begin confusing themselves and doubts are created. Them doubts are spurred by the shaytaan.just thought id say that...Salaam...Why is it fine use logic to prove the existence of god, the rightness of islam, the wrongness of all other religions....it seems human logic is fine until it creates confusion.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Everything is everything there is.ok i can accept that as long as you realise God created everything which there is.
Quote:
God is. if you mean he exists then yeah
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God is a part of everything. thats hindu belief, but if you mean he created everything, then yeah ! but you cant go up to a chair and think its God just because God created it
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
^ No he's not.Prove it.Why god is not a part of everything there is?everything is a category not the universe.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
ok i can accept that as long as you realise God created everything which there is.if you mean he exists then yeahthats hindu belief, but if you mean he created everything, then yeah ! but you cant go up to a chair and think its God just because God created itI think it's a christian belief as well, but that's not the point.God is, whereas he does not exist...that's a long story.I don't think you see where I'm getting at with everything. Eevrything is not the material word, the universe...it's a category, a group of everything that is, of everything that exists. God is, therefore he is an objext in that group. God is supposed to create everything, yet he did not create at elast one object in the category of everything.You can say god created all created things or everything but himself etc. Whereas God created eevrything does not seem to be a valid statement.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Lol ur just tryna confuse us man.... take ur ideas where they're appreciated, coz they aren't here!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
Lol ur just tryna confuse us man.... take ur ideas where they're appreciated, coz they aren't here!Fine..
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
^ no sis his not confusing me at all, i just cant comprehend how he doesnt see the deep flaws in what his saying.anyway, peace
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
You can say god created all created things or everything but himself etc. Whereas God created eevrything does not seem to be a valid statement.God always was, is and always will beGod created everything and wasnt created.God doesnt need to be a part of his creation.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ no sis his not confusing me at all, i just cant comprehend how he doesnt see the deep flaws in what his saying.Lol, the feeling is mutual.I guess this is how all philosophical debates turn out to be.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I didn't mean it in that way, I know muslims believe he is above creation or soemthing liek that.Let me rephrase it...Everything is everything there is. God is. God is a part of everything.I get you. Guys, what he is trying to say is that his "Everything" also includes God. So if God was not created how come "Everything" is created by God. He is trying to play with words which is rather useless. Lets' rephrase it then "God created almost every single thing in this world" basically implying God didn't not create himself and nor was he created. If somehow I miss you too, than I am sorry.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
God always was, is and always will beGod created everything and wasnt created.God doesnt need to be a part of his creation.Yes, I took it into consideration.Yes, I took it into consideration.I am not talking about the creation, I am talking about everything.Reread the last couple of arguments of mine..
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmm5
I get you. Guys, what he is trying to say is that his "Everything" also includes God. So if God was not created how come "Everything" is created by God. He is trying to play with words which is rather useless. Lets' rephrase it then "God created almost every single thing in this world" basically implying God didn't not create himself and nor was he created. If somehow I miss you too, than I am sorry.No, you got it!I don't think it is useless, logic is all about words.The Quan says many times that Allah is the crator of all things, every thing.Now, all things can mean either everything or all things created..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
God is a part of everything.thats a hindu belief.
Quote:
He is no created. agreed
Quote:
Not everything is created yb God. Disagreed, God created everything
AhLÄÄM
^ Lol I think ur on something, ur going round in circles. @ whatsthepointGet with it!!God is the Creator. If He is the CREATOR he does not need to be created.He created everything.Comprehende?!
Whatsthepoint
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
thats a hindu belief.I didn't mean it in that way, I know muslims believe he is above creation or soemthing liek that.Let me rephrase it...Everything is everything there is. God is. God is a part of everything.
-Ibn Al Aqwa-
When people begin trying to comprehend things they cannot, they begin confusing themselves and doubts are created. Them doubts are spurred by the shaytaan.just thought id say that...Salaam...__________________
"If Allah helps you, none can overcome you: If He forsakes you, who is there, after that, that can help you? In Allah, then, Let believers put their trust."
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
^ No he's not.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by -Ibn Al Aqwa-
When people begin trying to comprehend things they cannot, they begin confusing themselves and doubts are created. Them doubts are spurred by the shaytaan.just thought id say that...Salaam...Why is it fine use logic to prove the existence of god, the rightness of islam, the wrongness of all other religions....it seems human logic is fine until it creates confusion.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Everything is everything there is.ok i can accept that as long as you realise God created everything which there is.
Quote:
God is. if you mean he exists then yeah
Quote:
God is a part of everything. thats hindu belief, but if you mean he created everything, then yeah ! but you cant go up to a chair and think its God just because God created it
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
^ No he's not.Prove it.Why god is not a part of everything there is?everything is a category not the universe.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
ok i can accept that as long as you realise God created everything which there is.if you mean he exists then yeahthats hindu belief, but if you mean he created everything, then yeah ! but you cant go up to a chair and think its God just because God created itI think it's a christian belief as well, but that's not the point.God is, whereas he does not exist...that's a long story.I don't think you see where I'm getting at with everything. Eevrything is not the material word, the universe...it's a category, a group of everything that is, of everything that exists. God is, therefore he is an objext in that group. God is supposed to create everything, yet he did not create at elast one object in the category of everything.You can say god created all created things or everything but himself etc. Whereas God created eevrything does not seem to be a valid statement.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Lol ur just tryna confuse us man.... take ur ideas where they're appreciated, coz they aren't here!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
Lol ur just tryna confuse us man.... take ur ideas where they're appreciated, coz they aren't here!Fine..
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
^ no sis his not confusing me at all, i just cant comprehend how he doesnt see the deep flaws in what his saying.anyway, peace
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
You can say god created all created things or everything but himself etc. Whereas God created eevrything does not seem to be a valid statement.God always was, is and always will beGod created everything and wasnt created.God doesnt need to be a part of his creation.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ no sis his not confusing me at all, i just cant comprehend how he doesnt see the deep flaws in what his saying.Lol, the feeling is mutual.I guess this is how all philosophical debates turn out to be.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I didn't mean it in that way, I know muslims believe he is above creation or soemthing liek that.Let me rephrase it...Everything is everything there is. God is. God is a part of everything.I get you. Guys, what he is trying to say is that his "Everything" also includes God. So if God was not created how come "Everything" is created by God. He is trying to play with words which is rather useless. Lets' rephrase it then "God created almost every single thing in this world" basically implying God didn't not create himself and nor was he created. If somehow I miss you too, than I am sorry.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
God always was, is and always will beGod created everything and wasnt created.God doesnt need to be a part of his creation.Yes, I took it into consideration.Yes, I took it into consideration.I am not talking about the creation, I am talking about everything.Reread the last couple of arguments of mine..
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by hmmm5
I get you. Guys, what he is trying to say is that his "Everything" also includes God. So if God was not created how come "Everything" is created by God. He is trying to play with words which is rather useless. Lets' rephrase it then "God created almost every single thing in this world" basically implying God didn't not create himself and nor was he created. If somehow I miss you too, than I am sorry.No, you got it!I don't think it is useless, logic is all about words.The Quan says many times that Allah is the crator of all things, every thing.Now, all things can mean either everything or all things created..
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I am not talking about the creation, I am talking about everything.Reread the last couple of arguments of mine..how can God be a part of everything when he was never created and is the creator?!its not nice when people play with words like this.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
No, you got it!I don't think it is useless, logic is all about words.The Quan says many times that Allah is the crator of all things, every thing.Now, all things can mean either everything or all things created..it means everything to the exclusion of God himself because God is not a "thing", and we are saying every "thing", yeah i can play with words too dude
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
If god is not the creator of everything, omnicreator, is he still all-powerfull, omnipotent?...
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
how can God be a part of everything when he was never created and is the creator?!its not nice when people play with words like this.We define everything as a group of objects that are, that exists.God is.God is a part of everything.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
If god is not the creator of everything, omnicreator, is he still all-powerfull, omnipotent?...again you are just playing with words.let me ask, do you understand the concept of God being far above all created things?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
it means everything to the exclusion of God himself because God is not a "thing", and we are saying every "thing", yeah i can play with words too dudeIf you didn't notice, I aknowledged that option in my post.What is a thing?The literal translation of teh Quran says God created every thing, not all things, and many if not most islamic sites say he is the creator of everything.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
We define everything as a group of objects that are, that exists.God is.God is a part of everything.nope, you define it as everything, we see God as far above the created, as he is the creator.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
again you are just playing with words.let me ask, do you understand the concept of God being far above all created things?I am not talking about created things, I talking about a logical peculiarity that arouses alongside with the existence of god. There are many others, they may be word plays, tehy may prove that a thing like god cannot exists...I don't know, I am an agnostic.I'm not sure I understand the islamic version. Could you revise it for me?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
nope, you define it as everything, we see God as far above the created, as he is the creator.but god and his creation still form something bigger, if nothing else, they form a sum of god and his creation, god+creation.everything = {god, creation}God created everthing.1. Either god created god2. Or god did not create every element in the group of everything, hence he did not create everything.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
i cant help but feel your mocking now lol,just accept that everything excludes God.accept it dude
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
i cant help but feel your mocking now lol,just accept that everything excludes God.accept it dudesorry, I can't.So, why don't you accept that God IS a part of evrything, dude?Anyway, let's move to another issue...
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
Well Allaah has no beginning or end, so you can't branch him under the same things as you've branched life and creations. He is the creator who brought forth the Universe and his beings to dwell in only to worship him.That Allah existed before life was created is a logical impossibility. If Allah has no begining or end, then life also has no begining or end.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Ladies and gents... please. There is a nonsense in this discussion and it goes in circles. Let's just all accept without mocking each other that we accept the other beliefs, and everything will be fine.Anyway, it is not this thread, neither another one which will prrove to Atheists the existance of God.We will all know it once we die. And please no ridiculous comment now à la 'Yeah, you will burn in hell', 'Oh yes, you will know it *giggle*' or silly smilies just to proove, the other is wrong.Noone is wrong and we are all wrong. Happy now? Let's shake hands...Peace__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
That Allah existed before life was created is a logical impossibility. If Allah has no begining or end, then life also has no begining or end.just because you cant comprehend it doesnt make it false.Allah is infinite, again you wont be able to comprehend that.why dont you concentrate on what you can understand. Slowly develop your understanding, and then come back to this issue?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
You're stating that it doesn't make sense for a creator to have lived before there was anything living, but if Allaah has no beginning or end then that means he's eternal. He is ever-Living, has always lived, and will continue to live.Yes, Allah is ever-living. Then why does the Quran say He created life?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Hi Venu...Who created Shiv ? Do u have answer for that ....?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Allah is immortal. He is neither born and nor does He die. - Akal Purakh.He is indescribable, inestimable, indubitable, infallible, intangible, imperishable, immutable, immortal, immaculate, immanent, unconquerable, unique, formless, fearless, deathless, timeless, ageless, compassionate, omnipresent and creator of all. I agree Allah is immortal. Which means Allah always had life. Then why does the Quran say Allah created life?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
That Allah existed before life was created is a logical impossibility. If Allah has no begining or end, then life also has no begining or end.Where does the Quran state that Allah is alive? Where does it state he created life?It's more likely taht it says Allah exists, which is wrong. Perhaps the arabic version of the Quran says, Allah is, which is right...Perhaps it says something else.It's been said before that Allah did not create life itself, existence itself (which may also be a logical fallacy...), but rather that he created all living things...
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Even I'm confused now, and I'm a Sikh!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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If god created everything, did he create himself as well...A good question.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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I agree Allah is immortal. Which means Allah always had life. Then why does the Quran say Allah created life?He created human life?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
I agree Allah is immortal. Which means Allah always had life. Then why does the Quran say Allah created life?do you think the life of the omnipotent and the life of the created is the same?!its just a case of the supreme creating the lesser...
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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We will all know it once we die.Not if I'm right.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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do you think the life of the omnipotent and the life of the created is the same?!its just a case of the supreme creating the lesser...That could be it.but K.Venugopal's questions brings forth a lot of new questions, one of which we were discussing a couple of minutes ago.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
why must life be created?why must Allah exist?you could ask so many questions, and for every question you'll get an answer. Its just grasping that answer which causes you difficulty!
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Here's a nother one that comes to my mind: did god decide to exist?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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why must life be created?why must Allah exist?you could ask so many questions, and for every question you'll get an answer. Its just grasping that answer which causes you difficulty!That's not the proper way to argue.As I can say the same thing for you! But I won't..PS: so far, I have not received a satisfactory answer as to why did god create the creation.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Even I'm confused now, and I'm a Sikh!pfffffff...LOL This thread is already since page 2 ad absurdum__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
^ exactly, all these are questions which can indeed be asked. but they are not objective at all. Whats happened has happened, we should find out as much as we are capable of and then await a time which we have come to accept (ie afterlife) to ask further.I think we have enough proof to get through life, the rest can wait.This is my perspective
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Here's a nother one that comes to my mind: did god decide to exist?Now you're being silly! - There are people that believe, and those that don't. Fair enough. God is the only thing that has existed, and shall exist when we all have departed. He can't be explained, or fathomed. __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ exactly, all these are questions which can indeed be asked. but they are not objective at all. Whats happened has happened, we should find out as much as we are capable of and then await a time which we have come to accept (ie afterlife) to ask further.I think we have enough proof to get through life, the rest can wait.This is my perspectiveMine is different. We're all different!
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by MustafaMc
To start with quote for me an ayat of the Qur'an or an authentic hadith that states "Allah created life".Surah 67.2 of the Quran:YUSUFALI: He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;- PICKTHAL: Who hath created life and death that He may try you which of you is best in conduct; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving, SHAKIR: Who created death and life that He may try you-- which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving,
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Originally Posted by MustafaMc
Allah created the creation including all living things. That is not to say that He created the "quality", the "principal", the "force" or the "organismic state" that characterizes living organisms and separates them from the dead.If Allah did not create "quality", the "principal", the "force" or the "organismic state", how did they come about?
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Originally Posted by MustafaMc
Allah created man from clay and breathed of His Spirit (life) into him Quran 38:71 ...My question is not whether Allah created man. My question is, "Did Allah create life?"
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
My question is not whether Allah created man. My question is, "Did Allah create life?"Life = human, life = animals, life = vegetation. - What are you reffering to?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Surah 67.2 of the Quran:YUSUFALI: He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;- PICKTHAL: Who hath created life and death that He may try you which of you is best in conduct; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving, SHAKIR: Who created death and life that He may try you-- which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving,Where does it state he is alive?
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If Allah did not create "quality", the "principal", the "force" or the "organismic state", how did they come about? It seems the Quran says he did create life, so Mustafa may be wrong..
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by - Qatada -
Allah's attributes are different from human attributes, therefore to say that 'life' of humans is similar to how Allah is - is totally false. Since there is none like Him.Therefore the statement itself is flawed, since the concept of living has a totally different context and meaning for God compared to humans and the rest of creation.Your answer is good. You are saying the 'life' of humans is different from the 'life' of Allah. But does the Quran specifically say so? Or can we imply from anything the Quran says that it is thus? I think to the best of human knowledge, life means just one thing. Is there anything like the life of a human being different from the life of, say, a cat? Mind you, I am not talking about the 'concept of living'. I am talking about life, that which enlivens you and me. Without this life, can Allah be alive?
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Originally Posted by - Qatada -
It's like saying - did Allah create speech? Yes, He created speech for humans, and mankind etc. However - His speech is not created since it is His attribute, and He did not create Himself - since He is Eternal without a beginning or end, and this is why He is Perfect, and this is why we take Him and believe in Him as God - since His Perfection implies His Lordship over His creatures who are dependant upon Him.The principle is, if something existed, then Allah cannot claim to have created it. Invention yes, but not creation.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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"Did Allah create life?" YES and He created DeathSurah 67.2 of the Quran:YUSUFALI: He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;-__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by - Qatada -
He is Eternal without a beginning or end, and this is why He is Perfect, and [b]this is why we take Him and believe in Him as GodYou do not "take Him and believe in Him as God" because "He is Perfect". You have no means whatsoever to measure the perfection of Allah. You believe in Him only because you are a Muslim.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
^ But we Worship Allaah, who is WORTHY of being worshipped. __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
He is absolute and supreme, the premise of ''creation'' and ''life'' is not the same for his beings as it is for him. He's the over-seer of all things. If he oversees all things, then that means he has knowledge of all things. He created everything, what is hidden and what is apparent to us. He knows what we reveal and conceal. In all aspects of the word, he is supreme. ''Lam yalid, walam yulad'' - He does not beget, nor is he begotten. (Surah Ikhlas, V:3).Can we deny that Allah is alive? We can't say Allah is not alive. We may say Allah is alive, but in a different way. But that's only a difference of quality. But isn't life one and indivisible?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Muezzin
To be alive is to have a beginning and an end. Therefore, if something has no beginning and no end, it cannot be said to be alive.So are you saying Allah is dead?
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Originally Posted by Muezzin
I see where you're going with this. I think this lies more in our understanding or misunderstanding of Allah's nature rather than His existence itself.I don't think Allah is really a 'being' in the same way His creations are. I think of it more in terms of a... consciousness. That's the closest word I can think of, and it's still a little off.If you see where I am going, then we are likely to travel together. When you think of Allah in terms of consciousness etc. well, you are treading Hindu grounds. Or maybe Sufi grounds?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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So are you saying Allah is dead? Astagfirullah La Hawla Wa La Quwwa Ta Illa Billa... __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
U see if u go along that road and ask these type of questions, u could also continue asking who created that god and who created the one before him and so forth(infinity!)Only if you continue asking questions will you be inspired to meditate. Then you are no longer asking questions, but begining to see.
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Originally Posted by Hamada
To make it easier on ur mind first accept that there is one god!It would be easier on our mind if we at first have an open mind!
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
in order for something to be created it needs a creator. God never needed a creator and was never created.In order for God to create he needs to be alive. If he was alive, then the question of creating life did not arise. Why then did the Quran say that Allah created life?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
it means everything to the exclusion of God himself because God is not a "thing", and we are saying every "thing", yeah i can play with words too dudeI like this one. Ok look guys. Now we have GOD saying in the Qur'an, He created everything. Who is He telling that too? Us human! .........wait I will continue later.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,Does anyone know why this thread is in the 'Introduce Yourself' section?PeaceMy mistake. Do you think I ought to 're-start' the thread elsewhere? I leave it to the moderators.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
EVERYTHING is created, and God is the CREATOR.According to my understanding, God could not have created life.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Are you going to answer 6 PAGES OF POSTS like that?! ^^__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Abdul-Raouf
Hi Venu ... me too from india... nice to meet u...Welcome to LI...Can u please explain me more about your logic behind that sentence....Hi Abdul-Raouf, happy to meet you. Do you think my sentence is logical?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
thats a hindu beliefLet a belief be of any origin. The question is whether the beliefs stand up to logic.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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The question is whether the beliefs stand up to logic. The Hindu faith certanly doesn't! Worshipping idols who cannot help you or themselves whats that about then lol__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Allah is beyond human understanding, if it really was so simple to understand Allah as a being or as a creator, then we wouldn't bo too behind would we. Science hardly knows the complete functioning of the body, there are still some parts of it that are a mystery. There are places in the world which are not understood by humans. There are creatures in the world that we do not know of. There have been creatures in the past which we won't even have heard of...And thats only on this earth... what about the planet and the planets in our solar system, what about the millions of planets in our galaxy - the milky way...then there are the millions of other galaxies - which contain millions of more stars...And thats only what is visible to us, even with telescopes as good as the hubble telescope... we have no idea what lies ahead, behind and on either side of us... Now that we come to it, we have not the slightest clue of even an atoms worth of knowledge that this universe conceals!!And only Allah knows how many more universes that there maybe...which we can't even comprehend...The knowledge of Allah is undefineable... so how can we even TRY to define Allah...
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
He created everything.Comprehende?!Non comprehende! How could He have created life? (I am asking only for the logic. I am not unfairly asking you for the science.)
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
If we knew how he cud have created life, don't you think we would have done it by now!! (not that they're not trying...unsuccessfully...)
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Everything is everything there is. God is. God is a part of everything.A fantastic insight. Quintessential Hinduism.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by -Ibn Al Aqwa-
When people begin trying to comprehend things they cannot, they begin confusing themselves and doubts are created. Them doubts are spurred by the shaytaan.just thought id say that...Salaam...Trying to comprehend things we cannot is valorous. Fear of confusion and doubts should not prevent us from being valiant.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Non comprehende! How could He have created life? (I am asking only for the logic. I am not unfairly asking you for the science.) LOL!!! HAHAHAHA u gimme jokes. Ur asking how the Most Powerful could have created life?! Ur asking how the creator could have created life?! Think about wot ur asking man!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
thats hindu belief, but if you mean he created everything, then yeah ! but you cant go up to a chair and think its God just because God created itGod did not create the chair - man did. But man could not have but for God. Therefore surely there is God in the chair.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
In this regard Prophet Muhammad, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, was reported by Ibn ‘Abbaas to have said:“Reflect on the creation of God but do not reflect on God.”To reflect on the reality of God is to reflect on the infinite. And, as the mind boggles when it reflects on the limits of the finite universe and the galaxies and stars within it, it will be more confounded when it attempts to understand the uncreated. The Prophet, may God praise him, warned that the satanic forces would seek to introduce doubts in the hearts of the believers by raising unanswerable questions about God. Aboo Hurayrah related that God’s Messenger, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, said:“Satan will come to everyone of you and ask: Who created this and that? - until he questions: Who created your Lord? When he comes to that, one should seek refuge in God [say: I affirm my faith in God and His prophets] and avoid [such thoughts].”Found that on a website. source
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
That's not the proper way to argue.As I can say the same thing for you! But I won't..PS: so far, I have not received a satisfactory answer as to why did god create the creation.As for the reason Allah created creation, we muslims have an insanely simple answer to a question most people spend their lives trying to answer, and rarely succeed."I have created the jinn and humankind only for My worship." (Qur'an, 51:56)__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
Lol ur just tryna confuse us man.... take ur ideas where they're appreciated, coz they aren't here!Are you saying all Muslims think alike?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
God did not create the chair - man did. But man could not have but for God. Therefore surely there is God in the chair.Man created the chair, right? So by your reasoning, there is surely man in the chair, yes?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
So are you saying Allah is dead?No, I'm saying he's simply 'not alive' in the way we understand it. For something to be dead, it must once have lived.
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If you see where I am going, then we are likely to travel together. When you think of Allah in terms of consciousness etc. well, you are treading Hindu grounds. Or maybe Sufi grounds? That's just my own personal understanding/sense of it. I don't wish for this to become a sectarian debate. __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
God always was, is and always will beGod created everything and wasnt created.God doesnt need to be a part of his creation.God cannot but be a part of creation for the simple reason that life is not divisible.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by hmmm5
"God created almost every single thing in this world" basically implying God didn't not create himself and nor was he created.And that 'almost every single thing' excludes life. Yet the Quran says God created life. Where is the error?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Abdul-Raouf
Hi Venu...Who created Shiv ? Do u have answer for that ....?Hinduism says, "Truth is one and the wise express it variously." Shiv is an expression of the Truth.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
A fantastic insight. Quintessential Hinduism.Hehe, I wasn't trying to say god resides in chairs, I was merely pointing out taht god, who created everything, would have to be a part fo that everything, which I think is impossible.Now, god may as well reside in chairs, if he exists. I think omnipresence comes with omnipotence.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
And that 'almost every single thing' excludes life. Yet the Quran says God created life. Where is the error?Allah may have been refering to life in an earthly way or he amy have used life as a meatphor for living organisms.God may not be alive in the way we understand it, it's posible he is not alive, who says existence must include life?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
He created human life?It says in the Quran He created life. It also says that he created a human form in clay and blew life into it.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
do you think the life of the omnipotent and the life of the created is the same?!its just a case of the supreme creating the lesser...Life-forms are different - but the life within is one. When forms cease to have life, then the forms are dead. But life can never die. Life may appear to be different when in different forms. But there is only one life.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
As for the reason Allah created creation, we muslims have an insanely simple answer to a question most people spend their lives trying to answer, and rarely succeed."I have created the jinn and humankind only for My worship." (Qur'an, 51:56)God is self-sufficient, yet he wants (or needs, basically the same) worship?If god were self-sufficient, he would not have created anything...he would not have done a single thing, as taht woudl imply there was a reason, a necessity for it, which is in contradiction with a perfect, self-sufficient being.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Life = human, life = animals, life = vegetation. - What are you reffering to?Life = Indian, life = Chinese, life = American - but isn't life life - one and the same?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
YES and He created DeathSurah 67.2 of the Quran:YUSUFALI: He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;-How could Allah have created death? Death is simply the absence of life. Death does not exist. Death cannot exist. To be dead is to cease to exist. This makes the Quranic ayat even more erroneous.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
The Hindu faith certanly doesn't! Worshipping idols who cannot help you or themselves whats that about then lolOne person is an Allah worshipper and another is an idol worshipper. As Allah helps his worshippers, the idols too are helping its worshippers. There are probably more idol worshippers than Allah-worshippers. Without some benefits both camps would have been bereft of worshippers. So let's accept the dictum - to each his own way.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Salam4life
Allah is beyond human understanding, if it really was so simple to understand Allah as a being or as a creator, then we wouldn't bo too behind would we. Science hardly knows the complete functioning of the body, there are still some parts of it that are a mystery. There are places in the world which are not understood by humans. There are creatures in the world that we do not know of. There have been creatures in the past which we won't even have heard of...And thats only on this earth... what about the planet and the planets in our solar system, what about the millions of planets in our galaxy - the milky way...then there are the millions of other galaxies - which contain millions of more stars...And thats only what is visible to us, even with telescopes as good as the hubble telescope... we have no idea what lies ahead, behind and on either side of us... Now that we come to it, we have not the slightest clue of even an atoms worth of knowledge that this universe conceals!!...This human humility is endearing. In fact this humility has been the mother of all the knowledge man has gathered through the innumerable generations he has lived.
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And only Allah knows how many more universes that there maybe...which we can't even comprehend...The knowledge of Allah is undefineable... so how can we even TRY to define AllahAnd in the midst of humility comes our certainity about Allah. A certainity that tends to arrogance when it is suggested that all knowledge is contained in the Quran.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
LOL!!! HAHAHAHA u gimme jokes. Ur asking how the Most Powerful could have created life?! Ur asking how the creator could have created life?! Think about wot ur asking man!I repeat, I am asking for your logic, not Allah's science.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
God is self-sufficient, yet he wants (or needs, basically the same) worship?If god were self-sufficient, he would not have created anything...he would not have done a single thing, as taht woudl imply there was a reason, a necessity for it, which is in contradiction with a perfect, self-sufficient being.That question is answered quite well here:"Allah has honored humans by creating them to be His vicegerents on earth. He gave us free will, which makes us higher than the angels.But our minds as human beings are limited to the boundaries of human perception. We should bear this in mind and never try to bother ourselves with things that fall outside of our scope of understanding. Allah did not need to create us, and therefore, we may never understand why He did.Yes, Allah is perfect. Yes, He has no need of us; rather, we need Him. When He created us, He did not create us for His own benefit, but for ours. He created us for our advantage, not His.Allah does not need to be worshiped; rather, we need to worship Him. Our need of God stems from our innate need of someone to help us and give us safety.Our purpose of existence on earth is more meaningful than being slaves to worldly gains. There can be no meaningful life better than that prescribed by our Creator, Allah. Every act done according to Allah's way is an act of worship. Man is the beneficiary and Allah is in no need. The Qur’an says what means:*{O mankind! It is you who stand in need of Allah, but Allah is Rich [Free of all wants and needs], Worthy of all praise.}* (Fatir 35:15)We need Allah to feel our own being and to taste the happiness of life. Our need for Him is like the need of a baby for a supporting father and a merciful mother. We need to admit our powerlessness before Him and to trust Him to give us might and power, since He is the source of all might and power. A prophetic tradition reads:“O Allah, I seek refuge in You for Your pleasure and against Your wrath and in Your forgiveness and against Your punishment and in You from You. I cannot praise You as You can praise Yourself.” (Reported by Muslim, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah.)Almighty Allah says what means:*{Allah is He besides Whom there is no god, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsisting by Whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He pleases, His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not, and He is the Most High, the Great.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:255)"source
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
In this regard Prophet Muhammad, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, was reported by Ibn ‘Abbaas to have said:“Reflect on the creation of God but do not reflect on God.”To reflect on the reality of God is to reflect on the infinite. And, as the mind boggles when it reflects on the limits of the finite universe and the galaxies and stars within it, it will be more confounded when it attempts to understand the uncreated. The Prophet, may God praise him, warned that the satanic forces would seek to introduce doubts in the hearts of the believers by raising unanswerable questions about God. Aboo Hurayrah related that God’s Messenger, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, said:“Satan will come to everyone of you and ask: Who created this and that? - until he questions: Who created your Lord? When he comes to that, one should seek refuge in God [say: I affirm my faith in God and His prophets] and avoid [such thoughts].”You have quoted Mohammad. That was what was in Mohammad's mind. I am asking about what is in the Quran. That is what was in God's mind. How could God have claimed to have created life?
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Originally Posted by crayon
As for the reason Allah created creation, we muslims have an insanely simple answer to a question most people spend their lives trying to answer, and rarely succeed."I have created the jinn and humankind only for My worship." (Qur'an, 51:56)The result, Muslims believe it is the greatest thing to be a slave of Allah. Unquestioning, obedient and intolerant to other religions.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
Man created the chair, right? So by your reasoning, there is surely man in the chair, yes?Now-a-days chairs are mass-produced by machines and we might only be interested to know which factory produced it. But even now in villages, when a chair of ornamentation is created, the fame of the carpenter is almost written into it. Why, if I draw a squarish horse and pass it off as drawn by M.F. Hussain, I might make a fast buck. That's because great drawings reflect the artist quite a bit. "To see a World in a Grain of SandAnd a Heaven in a Wild Flower,Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour."-- William Blake, from "Auguries of Innocence"I hope you got the flow of what I am saying.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Allah may have been refering to life in an earthly way or he amy have used life as a meatphor for living organisms.God may not be alive in the way we understand it, it's posible he is not alive, who says existence must include life?Your answer is very satisfactory. Existence includes life, but whether it can exclude life and still exist is a moot point.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by guyabano
Well, and here is the part, where our opinions split. I refuse to believe in something/someone whose existence has never been prooven.Science/Evolution is something I can touch and proove, but existance of God, no.In that case, my decision has been made.PeaceThats right we differ greatly, uhm you are mostly right science you can see and touch! The problem is once u think u have it in your hands, it will slip. Science is to inconsistent!Take my word my friend, go outside and just take a look at everything around u. Take a look at it with hope, and i will swear down that things will make sense! Important thing is to look with hope!Everything just seem to be so perfect for us to live in! So many things we don't even think about.Why do the ingredients we make food with taste good enough for us to eat? They could of tasted horrible!Why does it rain in abudance? Why is the rain not salty?So many things! So little hope....Look at the world with hope and look at things from a different view__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
That question is answered quite well here:"Allah has honored humans by creating them to be His vicegerents on earth. He gave us free will, which makes us higher than the angels.But our minds as human beings are limited to the boundaries of human perception. We should bear this in mind and never try to bother ourselves with things that fall outside of our scope of understanding. Allah did not need to create us, and therefore, we may never understand why He did.Yes, Allah is perfect. Yes, He has no need of us; rather, we need Him. When He created us, He did not create us for His own benefit, but for ours. He created us for our advantage, not His.Allah does not need to be worshiped; rather, we need to worship Him. Our need of God stems from our innate need of someone to help us and give us safety.Our purpose of existence on earth is more meaningful than being slaves to worldly gains. There can be no meaningful life better than that prescribed by our Creator, Allah. Every act done according to Allah's way is an act of worship. Man is the beneficiary and Allah is in no need. The Qur’an says what means:*{O mankind! It is you who stand in need of Allah, but Allah is Rich [Free of all wants and needs], Worthy of all praise.}* (Fatir 35:15)We need Allah to feel our own being and to taste the happiness of life. Our need for Him is like the need of a baby for a supporting father and a merciful mother. We need to admit our powerlessness before Him and to trust Him to give us might and power, since He is the source of all might and power. A prophetic tradition reads:“O Allah, I seek refuge in You for Your pleasure and against Your wrath and in Your forgiveness and against Your punishment and in You from You. I cannot praise You as You can praise Yourself.” (Reported by Muslim, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah.)Almighty Allah says what means:*{Allah is He besides Whom there is no god, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsisting by Whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He pleases, His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not, and He is the Most High, the Great.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:255)"sourceAs I said, no satisfactory response so far.Thanks for trying anyway.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Muezzin
No, I'm saying he's simply 'not alive' in the way we understand it. For something to be dead, it must once have lived.Life is indivisible. Life forms die, but life itself cannot die. Allah did not create life, ALLAH IS LIFE.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
God is self-sufficient, yet he wants (or needs, basically the same) worship?If god were self-sufficient, he would not have created anything...he would not have done a single thing, as taht woudl imply there was a reason, a necessity for it, which is in contradiction with a perfect, self-sufficient being.You've got the seed here of a higher truth. Maybe I will revert to it some other time in some other thread.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Life is indivisible. Life forms die, but life itself cannot die. Allah did not create life, ALLAH IS LIFE.That's a fair view from where you're standing...One question: what are you trying to achieve with this thread?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Allah cannot be comprehended/understood through knowledge only. Allah cannot be understood/comprehended through having Faith.Only when these two come togeter can you get a glimpse of Who Allah is."Allah Guides whomever He Wills without any measures"May Allah Guide us all
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Your answer is very satisfactory. Existence includes life, but whether it can exclude life and still exist is a moot point.Why not? A chair exists yet it is not alive. A virus exists, yet it is not alive. why can't god exixst and be unalive?I know you percieve life as some higher force connected with god... whereas I see life as a quality of living beigns, which did not exists before the first life forms appeared. It's more of a description than anything else... I find ot simialr to the word connection. You've got two adjacent boxes, inbetween them is a connection... which does not exists physically, it's an idea, a description of a certain state.God does not need to be alive in order to be/exist.If I were a muslim, I'd interpret the verse in question to decribe the creation of living organisms (life) and the setting of a limit to their existence (death).
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by 1ummah
Allah cannot be comprehended/understood through knowledge only. Allah cannot be understood/comprehended through having Faith.Only when these two come togeter can you get a glimpse of Who Allah is."Allah Guides whomever He Wills without any measures"May Allah Guide us allthe same with polytheism, trinity etc... that muslims are so keen to disprove with logic.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
We have our own perception of what "life" is. Meaning we think of flesh and blood with all the inner workings of the human body. People of faith view God as "something" else entirely.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
One person is an Allah worshipper and another is an idol worshipper. As Allah helps his worshippers, the idols too are helping its worshippers. There are probably more idol worshippers than Allah-worshippers. Without some benefits both camps would have been bereft of worshippers. So let's accept the dictum - to each his own way.You need to go and read the Vedas. You'll find idolatry is not permissable. So saying idols help the believer is codswallop!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
I agree Allah is immortal. Which means Allah always had life. Then why does the Quran say Allah created life?Can you quote me Surah and ayat? (I read your latter post)
Last edited by MustafaMc; 1 Day Ago at 04:39 AM. Reason: Question was answered later
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Am I off base in my understanding that God's creation is what we call "life"? This isn't as difficult of a question as some are making it out to be, at least in my opinion. What is referred to by "life" is indeed the creation of the Almighty God. Mortal beings made of flesh and bone, whether it be animal or Human. Or if one wants to get more complex, all the variations of life as we know it, from single cell organisms to the complex human body. God would be neither mortal, nor flesh, nor cell. At least that is how I view it.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
That's a fair view from where you're standing...One question: what are you trying to achieve with this thread?I am simply trying to say that when the Quran says Allah created life, there seems to be something amiss there. I am not taking the position that the Quran is wrong. I prefer to believe that we have not come to a proper understanding of what the Quran means. That could be because those folks who interpreted the Quran in the initial period might have been somewhat insular –and chose to reinvent the wheel again, failing to appreciate that, for example, the Hindu culture or the Veda had already trod much grounds on key understanding of the human dilemma. Instead, the approach had been to say that all that came before the Quran is crap and all that comes after the Quran would also be crap. It is probably this attitude that I am questioning.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
The reply does not satisfy me, it confuses me even further.God cannot be the creator of everything and at the same time not be created..Why would he need to be created? God is independent, he doesn't need a creator. He's the absolute creator, nothing is before him or supercedes him. Hope that makes sense.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Yeah, yeah, I get hat.But that makes it impossible for god to be the creator of all things.This is splitting hairs. "All things except himself" Was that really so hard to come up with? __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Also, God having a creator would entail that he has a beginning (life) and an end (death) and as it has been stated umpteen times, God has none of these attributes.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
It is said in the Quran that Allah created life. If Allah were to have created life, there would have been no life till He created it. If there was no life till He created it, Allah would have been dead till He created life. This is a logical absurdity. Can my brethren in Islam therefore please explain why it is said in the Quran that Allah created life?that the fun with any religion, contradictions dont count.seriously though, id say they mean allah created all other life.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by - Qatada -
He is Eternal without a beginning or end, and this is why He is Perfect,....how can something perfect make something imperfect?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
U see if u go along that road and ask these type of questions, u could also continue asking who created that god and who created the one before him and so forth(infinity!)Doesn't make sense, does it!To make it easier on ur mind first accept that there is one god! (Nothing is before him, and nothing is after him!)Don't get caught asking questions which will never have an answer to! Ur life will be a mess, because u going to end questioning stuff which will never be answered, NEVER!your right about that, god is an arbitrarily made terminator.im worried about your not wanting people to ask questions that you dont have the answer to.Aksing questions is good__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by -Ibn Al Aqwa-
When people begin trying to comprehend things they cannot, they begin confusing themselves and doubts are created. Them doubts are spurred by the shaytaan.just thought id say that...Salaam...when peoplebdegin to trying to learn and to comprehend things they do not understand they grow. The desire to not learn , to close your eyes, is the true evil.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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your right about that, god is an arbitrarily made terminator.im worried about your not wanting people to ask questions that you dont have the answer to.Aksing questions is goodThat is only so in the eyes of a person whos view is limited am afraidI can't see how its free thinking, but then agian who am I to think that?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
^ But we Worship Allaah, who is WORTHY of being worshipped. why is he worthy?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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why is he worthy?He is the creator of all that excists, which makes him well worthy of worshipping!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
If there was no life till He created it, Allah would have been dead till He created life. This is a logical absurdity.yes, i agree it is a logical absurdity. i think it is because you are using your limited human understanding in an attempt to understand something that is beyond understanding.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
One person is an Allah worshipper and another is an idol worshipper. As Allah helps his worshippers, the idols too are helping its worshippers. There are probably more idol worshippers than Allah-worshippers. Without some benefits both camps would have been bereft of worshippers. So let's accept the dictum - to each his own way.AvarAllahNoor already commented on this but i too am surprised at this statement. i've always been told by hindus that they don't worshp the idols - it just looks like it and that they realize the idols themselves do not help people. __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
He is the creator of all that excists, which makes him well worthy of worshipping!no, if god exists, it might get a thanks but thats all.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamada
He is the creator of all that excists, which makes him well worthy of worshipping!Now this statement makes me jump in again.Why should a God be worthy to be worshipped if he/she/it/thing created us so imperfect? I mean, up from the first breath we take, we are doomed to die. Already oxygen kills us.And in between, we have to suffer so many pains and face so many trials, so I would I worship him/her/it?Peace__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
And that 'almost every single thing' excludes life. Yet the Quran says God created life. Where is the error?The error is in your understanding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Your answer is good. You are saying the 'life' of humans is different from the 'life' of Allah. But does the Quran specifically say so?Allah said in the Quran something to the effect of: there is nothing like unto Him.In other words, there is nothing like God.God calls Himself al-Hayy - the Living. That does not mean He lives in the same way that we live, because God already said that nothing is like Him.Put it simply:God = Uncreated, ever-living.God created life = for His creations. He does not have the same life that we have.I hope you get it now, its been 11 pages of discussion on this... it's been stated over and over again, everyone else, even the non-Muslims, have got it...__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakelegs
AvarAllahNoor already commented on this but i too am surprised at this statement. i've always been told by hindus that they don't worshp the idols - it just looks like it and that they realize the idols themselves do not help people. Different Sects & Cults in Hinduism, preach their own things. Mostly fabricated to lure the un-educated masses. God alone is worthy of praise. All religions make this clear & practice it.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Malaikah
God created life = for His creations. He does not have the same life that we have.Can you tell me whether man and say, cats, have the same life?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Different Sects & Cults in Hinduism, preach their own things. Mostly fabricated to lure the un-educated masses. God alone is worthy of praise. All religions make this clear & practice it.When we say God is worthy of praise, it is almost as if we have sat in judgement and decided God is a worthy fellow. God might not be flattered!
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
Why would he need to be created? God is independent, he doesn't need a creator. He's the absolute creator, nothing is before him or supercedes him. Hope that makes sense.Read the rest of my posts.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah
This is splitting hairs. "All things except himself" Was that really so hard to come up with? It wasn't, I think I said something like it on page 2 or 3.The problem is that the Quran says "all things".
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
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You have quoted Mohammad. That was what was in Mohammad's mind. I am asking about what is in the Quran. That is what was in God's mind. How could God have claimed to have created life?The result, Muslims believe it is the greatest thing to be a slave of Allah. Unquestioning, obedient and intolerant to other religions.To be a slave of Allah, you have to obey Allah. Allah commands muslims to be obedient, yes. Unquestioning when it comes to certain questions that our mind can not comprehend. And TOLERANT of other religions. read this.As for the first part of your reply, that IS what was in God's mind. Anything Mohammed peace be upon him said regarding matters of religion were not from his own opinions or ideas; they were revelations by Allah. Allah said in the Quran "Nor does he (Muhammad) speak out of his desire. It is nothing but revelation that is revealed. (Quran 53:3-4)"__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
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Now-a-days chairs are mass-produced by machines and we might only be interested to know which factory produced it. But even now in villages, when a chair of ornamentation is created, the fame of the carpenter is almost written into it. Why, if I draw a squarish horse and pass it off as drawn by M.F. Hussain, I might make a fast buck. That's because great drawings reflect the artist quite a bit. "To see a World in a Grain of SandAnd a Heaven in a Wild Flower,Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour."-- William Blake, from "Auguries of Innocence"I hope you got the flow of what I am saying.So what you meant by "God being present in everything", you did not mean literally? That's how I understood it, I apologize."the fame of the carpenter is almost written into it"But the power and strength of Allah are written into everything he makes. I'm doing high school biology, and I'm astounded at how complicated even the simplest organisms are. And everything in this world is one of a kind, a signature design. Since when has anyone ever been able to make any living organism from thin air?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by ranma1/2
no, if god exists, it might get a thanks but thats all.I'm honestly dumbfounded at how anyone could think this way, even someone who doesn't acknowledge the existence of God. God gave you the ability to see, to hear, to taste, to smell, to touch, to experience emotions. Imagine we had to think about every time we needed to breathe, needed to control our digestion, respiration, hormone secretion, anything. Someone who gave you all of these blessings (and that's just looking at the human body, not the rest of creation), does not deserve to be worshiped? If you really feel that way, I feel sorry for your parents. If you think the God who created you and everything else, what do you feel parents deserve? They raise you, discipline you, feed you, provide you with a home, etc. etc. According to your reasoning, they deserve even less than thanks. You don't have to obey them, or be kind to them, or anything. Truly a sad state.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
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Can you tell me whether man and say, cats, have the same life?No offense, but I feel as if you're going in circles. Men and cats have distinct attributes given to them by an All-powerful and superior being, ''Allaah''. Allaah has his own distinct attributes. Cats and humans have an end (death) and a beginning(life), whilst Allaah has none of these attributes. Allaah is perfect, and 'alameen (all that exists) are subject to fall into traps and make mistakes unlike Allaah.
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
When we say God is worthy of praise, it is almost as if we have sat in judgement and decided God is a worthy fellow. God might not be flattered!So you're telling me the one who created you out of sheer mercy and grace is not worthy of praise? The one who gave you hands to type, and an intellect and intelligence to use does not deserve a thanks? We are told to obey Allaah and our parents as well. Would you say the same for them? The mother who gave birth to you, fed you, clothed you, nurtured you, stayed up until you went to back to sleep, went through 24 hours of labour for..does not deserve a thanks?And the originator of all of the universe does not deserve a thanks for providing you with this wondering human being?Allaah only desires good for his beings, shouldn't you be grateful and show gratitude just for the simple fact that you are alive? Subhan Allaah, we are so much better off than other people. And who provides us with the necessities to keep alive? Who is the originator of all created beings and creations?It said that (I will post the hadeeth later on), that Allaah had 100% mercy. He saved 1% for humanity and 99% for himself. And just with that 1% he has given us so much. Ponder on that.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
I think the answer has been given, and this thread needs to be closed before it gets out of hand... __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 22 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Can you tell me whether man and say, cats, have the same life?Yeh, I would reckon so. We have a soul, we have a body, body leaves the soul = person dies.Or, if you are going to get picky on me, it could be something like, heart stops working, brain shuts down, soul leaves body, person (or cat) dies.Same can't be said about God! [To be honest, I'm not a 100% sure that animals have souls, but I'm pretty sure, just not a 100%. Either way, your 'life' is not the same as God's 'life'.]__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 20 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
So what you meant by "God being present in everything", you did not mean literally? That's how I understood it, I apologize.I, K.Venugopal, am not present in the chair I made (let's suppose I am a carpenter) because Venugopal is a physical being and a physical being is a matter-being and matter (me) cannot occupy the space another matter (the chair) occupies. Therefore you will not see Venugopal "in the chair", though you could see me "on the chair" if I happen to be seated on the chair. But if you consider the essessense of me (and you also), then we are not merely physical beings. We are also beings of finer properties. So you might "see" me "in the chair" in the sense that you might recognise the chair as my handiwork. However, the difference between me the "creator" of the chair and Allah the creator of the universe is that I did not use myself to create the chair whereas Allah used himself to create the universe. Can you guess the "product" he used to create the universe? Life, of course. Truth is, life is not a thing separate from Allah. Life is Allah and Allah is Life. Therefore the Creator is the Creation and the Creation is the Creator.
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But the power and strength of Allah are written into everything he makes. I'm doing high school biology, and I'm astounded at how complicated even the simplest organisms are. And everything in this world is one of a kind, a signature design. Since when has anyone ever been able to make any living organism from thin air?You have stated exactly what I have concluded above. Aren't we thinking alike?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 19 Hours Ago
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Allah used himself to create the universe".. Could you explain it further?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 19 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
When we say God is worthy of praise, it is almost as if we have sat in judgement and decided God is a worthy fellow. God might not be flattered!Read Gurbani all shall be made clear! __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 19 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Allah used himself to create the universe".. Could you explain it further?Before creation nothing would have existed except Allah. Therefore creation occurred when the ONE decided to become MANY. He would have said, "Let this be" and "Let that be" and they became. You could say Allah's thoughts or desire or will became creation. We say, "Allah's will" as if Allah and His will are separate. Allah and His will may be different, but they are not separate - just as a dancer and her dance may be different, but you cannot separate the dancer and the dance. Out of the dancer came the dance. The dance ended, the dancer remains. Out of the ocean came the waves and back to the ocean goes the waves. The ocean and the waves are different, but the ocean and the waves are not separate. Likewise out of Allah came the creation and Allah and creation are different, but they are not separate. In the end, we all go back to Allah.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 18 Hours Ago
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Yeh, I would reckon so. We have a soul, we have a body, body leaves the soul = person dies.Or, if you are going to get picky on me, it could be something like, heart stops working, brain shuts down, soul leaves body, person (or cat) dies.Same can't be said about God! [To be honest, I'm not a 100% sure that animals have souls, but I'm pretty sure, just not a 100%. Either way, your 'life' is not the same as God's 'life'.]If you agree (or thereabouts) that the thing that enlivens us and the cats is the same thing, call it life, soul, essence or consciousness and further that pain, hunger, fear etc. are the same in man and cat (though each man and each cat might react differently to the same circumstance) then could it not be the same thing that enlivens God? Though God, certainly, reacts differently to the same circumstances He faces. (For if he did not face the same circumstances, how could be all-knowing?) I must confess I have only my petty logic to bank on to see that life is a single indivisible thing and that life is indeed God. So the Quran appears to be per se wrong in saying that Allah created life. Which is why I started this thread – to discuss on whether the Quran actually got it wrong on this.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 18 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Before creation nothing would have existed except Allah. Therefore creation occurred when the ONE decided to become MANY.He would have said, "Let this be" and "Let that be" and they became. You could say Allah's thoughts or desire or will became creation. We say, "Allah's will" as if Allah and His will are separate. Allah and His will may be different, but they are not separate - just as a dancer and her dance may be different, but you cannot separate the dancer and the dance. Out of the dancer came the dance. The dance ended, the dancer remains. Out of the ocean came the waves and back to the ocean goes the waves. The ocean and the waves are different, but the ocean and the waves are not separate. Likewise out of Allah came the creation and Allah and creation are different, but they are not separate. In the end, we all go back to Allah."Therefore creation occurred when the ONE decided to become MANY."See, I would say creation occurred when ONE decided to create MANY. Not become. Which leads to Allah's will/desire/power/etc. to create everything, not become it. Which leads to the idea that Allah and his creation are different entities.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 18 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by guyabano
Now this statement makes me jump in again.Why should a God be worthy to be worshipped if he/she/it/thing created us so imperfect? I mean, up from the first breath we take, we are doomed to die. Already oxygen kills us.And in between, we have to suffer so many pains and face so many trials, so I would I worship him/her/it?PeaceI find this well funny! How me the one worships that god has no complains at all, and u who lacks the faith is complaining.All these trials, pains all my problems I see as a blessing that THE ONE LORD who is worthy of worship is testing me! (YES ME !! )While on the other hand u be very depressed when undergoing such trial, u be worried dying from oxygen etc.....U choose; a worry depressed life at times, or a faithfull and hopefull life.I hope u go for the latter one.__________________
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Last edited by Hamada; 18 Hours Ago at 10:34 PM.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 18 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
All these trials, pains all my problems I see as a blessing that THE ONE LORD who is worthy of worship is testing me!This I agree entirely with you. This is the quintessence of spirituality. Actually, I'd go to the extent of saying that problems do not exist at all - everyone, everything and every circumstance is perfect - if only we wake up from our nightmare born of ignorance. And we might even come to realize that we have all along being none other than the Allah we were worshipping. (OK, I concede my last sentence would sound blasphemy to you. I apologize if I hurt you, but as a Hindu, such a teaching is my most precious knowledge.)
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 18 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
"Therefore creation occurred when the ONE decided to become MANY."See, I would say creation occurred when ONE decided to create MANY. Not become. Which leads to Allah's will/desire/power/etc. to create everything, not become it. Which leads to the idea that Allah and his creation are different entities.Since God could not have created life and since he could not have created creation without life (not just He having life, but he needed life for creation) creation actually meant that the Creator became creation. Life cannot create life. Life can only take different forms in an act of creation.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 17 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Life cannot create life.Says who?Says your human mind and logic. But human mind and logic are unable to comprehend the eternal nature of Allah. There is a limit to what we can understand, the how Allah came to be passes that limit.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 17 Hours Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamada
I find this well funny! How me the one worships that god has no complains at all, and u who lacks the faith is complaining.All these trials, pains all my problems I see as a blessing that THE ONE LORD who is worthy of worship is testing me! (YES ME !! )While on the other hand u be very depressed when undergoing such trial, u be worried dying from oxygen etc.....U choose; a worry depressed life at times, or a faithfull and hopefull life.I hope u go for the latter one.No, I couldn't choose. Why did God not ask me at my birth if I want to follow his path or not? In that case, I would have said NO and I could have been spared from all the trials and pains in life. I could lead a perfect life !I don't worship somebody who give me trials and pains.Oh my...peace__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 17 Hours Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyabano
No, I couldn't choose. Why did God not ask me at my birth if I want to follow his path or not? In that case, I would have said NO and I could have been spared from all the trials and pains in life. I could lead a perfect life !I don't worship somebody who give me trials and pains.Oh my...peaceGod is ever so Merciful! If he finds one atom of hope or faith in your heart he will increase that! I am sure God did ask u perhaps not in a direct way u that u imaged.You will go trough the trials of life whether you believe in a god or not! The way you handle the trials however varies greatly if u believe or not.These poor souls commiting suicide because the pressure of life became to severe...An old guy killed him self because he lost his cat! He happens to have no firm believe. Now ask ur self a person with firm faith and believe, would he of done the same? I am pretty sure he would of not.What is your way of life guyabano? __________________
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Last edited by Hamada; 16 Hours Ago at 12:34 AM.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 16 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
Says who?Says your human mind and logic. But human mind and logic are unable to comprehend the eternal nature of Allah. There is a limit to what we can understand, the how Allah came to be passes that limit.Unfortunately we are only humans and we have to live and prosper by our mind and logic. So the human mind and logic asks, "If Allah created life, was He dead till he created life? Or is He still dead?" Since we cannot get an answer from Allah unless we wait till Judgement day, we have to rely on the Quran itself to come up with an answer. Can anyone quote the Quran for a logical answer? I suppose anything else would be mere mortal opinions.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 16 Hours Ago
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal Life cannot create life. What I meant here is that if it was life which created life, then that life would not have had life till its creation, right? So did something dead create life? That's not possible, because the dead is not supposed to be able to do anthing. Therefore, the logical conclusion can only be that life cannot create life - life can only manifest itself in various forms in the act of creation.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 15 Hours Ago
When your Lord said unto the angels “indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority.” They said will you place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare your praise and sanctify you? He {Allah} said, “Indeed, I know that which you do not know.” this is how the human started Allah has no end or begining, his not dead or never be.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 15 Hours Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamada
God is ever so Merciful! If he finds one atom of hope or faith in your heart he will increase that! I am sure God did ask u perhaps not in a direct way u that u imaged.You will go trough the trials of life whether you believe in a god or not! The way you handle the trials however varies greatly if u believe or not.These poor souls commiting suicide because the pressure of life became to severe...An old guy killed him self because he lost his cat! He happens to have no firm believe. Now ask ur self a person with firm faith and believe, would he of done the same? I am pretty sure he would of not.What is your way of life guyabano? Are you saying religious people do not comit suicides? Are you saying religious people are not depressed or are less depressed than the non-religious?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 14 Hours Ago
Salam Alakym!Take a look around you from where you sit. You will notice that everything in the room is "made": the walls, the upholstery, the ceiling, the chair where you sit, the booklet you hold in your hand, the glass on the table and countless other details. None of them happen to exist in your room of their own accord. Even the simple loops of the carpet were made by someone: they did not appear spontaneously or by chance.A person who is about to read a book knows that it has been written by an author for a specific reason. It would not even occur to him that this book might have come into being by chance. In the same manner, a person who sees a sculpture has no doubt whatsoever that it was made by a sculptor. And not just works of art: even a few bricks resting on top of one another make one think that they must have been brought to rest just so by someone within a certain plan. Therefore, everywhere where there is an order - either small or big - a founder and protector of this order must also exist. If, one day, somebody came forward and said that raw iron and coal came together to form steel by chance, which in turn constructed the Eiffel Tower again by chance, would not he and those who believed him be regarded as insane?The claim of the theory of evolution, the unique method of denying the existence of God, is no different from this. According to the theory, lifeless atoms formed amino acids by chance, amino acids formed proteins by chance, and finally proteins formed living creatures again by chance. However, the probability of a living creature being formed by coincidence is less than the probability of the Eiffel Tower being formed in the same manner, because even the simplest living cell is more sophisticated than any man-made structure in the world.How is it possible to think that the balance in the world came about by coincidence when the extraordinary harmony of nature is observable even with the naked eye? It is the most unreasonable claim to say that the universe, each point of which suggests the existence of its Creator, has come into being on its own.Therefore, there should be a designer of the balance visible everywhere from our body to the farthest corners of the inconceivably vast universe. So, who is this Creator that ordained everything so subtly and created all?He cannot be any material being present within the universe, because His must be a will that existed before the universe and created the universe therewith. The Almighty Creator is One in Whom everything finds existence, yet Whose existence is without any beginning or end.Religion teaches us the identity of our Creator Whose existence we discover with our reason. Through what He has revealed to us as religion, we know that He is God, the Compassionate and the Merciful, Who created the heavens and the earth from nothing.Although most people have the capability to grasp this fact, they spend their lives unaware of it. When they look at a landscape painting, they wonder who its painter is. Later, they praise the artist at length for his beautiful work of art. Despite the fact that they face numerous originals of the natural world he painted the moment they turn around, they still disregard the existence of God, Who is the only owner of all these beauties. In truth, no lengthy research is needed to understand the existence of God. Even if one of us had to live in a room from the time he was born, countless pieces of evidence in this room alone would be enough for him to grasp the existence of God.The human body so overflows with evidence that it could not be contained in many multi-volumed encyclopaedias. Giving only a few minutes of conscientious thought to it all is enough to understand the existence of God. The present order is protected by God and maintained by Him.The human body is not the only food for thought. Life abides in every square millimetre of the earth, be it observable by men or not. The world overflows with many living beings, from unicellular organisms to plants, from insects to sea animals, and from birds to human beings. If you take a handful of soil and look at it, even therein you can discover manifold living creatures with diverse characteristics. The same is true also for the air you breathe. Even on your skin, there are many living creatures whose names are unknown to you. In the intestines of all living beings are millions of bacteria or unicellular organisms that help digestion. The animal population in the world is many times greater than the human population. When we also consider the plant world, we see that there is not a single spot on the earth where there is no life. All of these creatures that are spread over an area of millions of square kilometres have different body systems, different lives and different contributions to the ecological balance. It is preposterous to claim that all these have come into existence by chance with no aim or purpose. No living being has come to exist through its own accord or effort. No coincidental happening can ever result in such complicated systems.All of this evidence leads us to the conclusion that the universe works with a certain "consciousness". What, then, is the source of this consciousness? Surely it is neither the living nor the non-living beings in it. Nor can they be the ones that maintain the harmony and preserve the order. The existence and glory of God reveals itself in countless proofs in the universe. In fact, there is not even a single man on the earth who will not accept this evident reality from the heart. Yet they still deny it "in iniquity and arrogance, though their souls are convinced thereof" as stated in the Qur'an. (The Qur'an, 27:14)__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 14 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Are you saying religious people do not comit suicides? Are you saying religious people are not depressed or are less depressed than the non-religious?No no no, never would I say that. I am just going with the majoraty (People with no faith or believe are far more likely to kill them self. At the end of the day if ur life is not worth living due what ever kind of problems then suicide could b an optinion because there is no life after death...)Religious people in my eyes r muslims btw! I dnt no about other religions, but ofcourse muslims get depressed some even get as far as suicide!A minoroty though! That will ever get as far as Suicide. They perhaps weren't good muslims at all, otherwise they would of not killed them self.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 14 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
No no no, never would I say that. I am just going with the majoraty (People with no faith or believe are far more likely to kill them self. At the end of the day if ur life is not worth living due what ever kind of problems then suicide could b an optinion because there is no life after death...)Religious people in my eyes r muslims btw! I dnt no about other religions, but ofcourse muslims get depressed some even get as far as suicide!A minoroty though! That will ever get as far as Suicide. They perhaps weren't good muslims at all, otherwise they would of not killed them self.Can you provide evidence/studies to support your claims?
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:) SalaMu 3aleKuM :)
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 14 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Can you provide evidence/studies to support your claims?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rateU might not like wikipedia, but it does the job!The (few) muslim countries on there happens to have alot of none muslims!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 13 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rateU might not like wikipedia, but it does the job!The (few) muslim countries on there happens to have alot of none muslims!I'm sorry, but how does this prove atheists are more likely to comit suicide than theists?Are you suggesting the presence of non-muslims causes muslims to be suicidal?
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:) SalaMu 3aleKuM :)
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 13 Hours Ago
No not all, I am saying that muslims themselfs are less likely to commit suicide, it could of been the none muslims.All these countries at the top have a high number of atheists.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 13 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
No not all, I am saying that muslims themselfs are less likely to commit suicide, it could of been the none muslims.All these countries at the top have a high number of atheists.Depends on what you percieve as high. I don't think there's a country in the world where the number of atheists exeeds the number of adherents to the biggest religion in the country. The percentage of muslim population of Khazakstan is greater than the percentage of atheists in any country in the world. The percentage of atheists in Luthania, supposedly the most suicidal country in the world, is lower than that of many countries at the bottom of the list.And a higher percentage of the atheist popualtion is not the only factor common to all countries on top of the list. 8 out of 10 are post socialistic (and socialism is not only about atheism), going trough transition, some are still underdeveloped. There are many factors taht affect people to comit suicides.What I want you to do is to find a psychological study, preferably a couple of tehm, that have showed that atheists are more liekly to comit suicide.
Last edited by Whatsthepoint; 13 Hours Ago at 03:54 AM.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 12 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
The (few) muslim countries on there happens to have alot of none muslims!the ones with higher muslim rate are not on the list. They may have a very high suicide rate, they just do not make stats about it.Crime, suicides etc by country stats are not the most reliable stats you'll come across, as they only show the amount of reported cases of offences/suicides etc per capita. Not everything gets reported or gets misreported, especially in under developed countries. I think suicide may be one of the best examples of this.
Last edited by Whatsthepoint; 12 Hours Ago at 04:44 AM.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 10 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
What's the islamic reply on this one:it's just my reply...God is not created, he did not create himself.Allah is not created, that is correct...At least one thing in existence is not created (by god).Allah is above the realm of our existence, everything that exists as creation was created by Allah...God is not the creator of all things.Allah, nowoothubillah is NOT a thing!The question itself arouses some new questions, which I'll try to do later..it's not hard...__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 4 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Dr.Trax
All of this evidence leads us to the conclusion that the universe works with a certain "consciousness". What, then, is the source of this consciousness? Surely it is neither the living nor the non-living beings in it.We see the incredible complexity as well as the perfection of creation and wonder who created it all. We say a certain Allah created it and do not allow ourselves to wonder who created Allah. We are satisfied with the answer that Allah always existed. If Allah, a posited creator, can always exist, why could creation not have always existed? When you say the universe works with a certain "consciousness", are you saying that the universe is conscious to a certain extent? Which would be to say that we, as parts of the universe, are also conscious to a certain extent. Of course, we are. So can we now assume that you and I, as individuals, have the 'consciousness' that the universe has in a greater measure? If you agree this far, it might not be difficult to see that total consciousness resides in that which is beyond the universe. We might call the total consciousness Allah. The best way, therefore, to know Allah is to begin with our consciousness and connect to the consciousness of Allah. This is the course open through meditation. And it also means that we, who are in essence our consciousness, are no different from Allah, who is consciousness itself. We, Allah and us, are of a kind. We are sparks while Allah is the fire. In short, we, the creation, are in essence no different from Allah. We have to know ourselves to know Allah. Allah’s creation is only Allah’s manifestation. Islam does not recognize this. I would, most humbly, submit that this is Islam’s failing. Hinduism recognizes this (that creation is actually a manifestation) and this might explain why my thread (that Allah could not have create
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 2 Hours Ago
My above post should continue: . . . and this might explain why my thread (that Allah could not have created life) does not seem to be largely acceptable in this forum.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Hour Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Allah’s creation is only Allah’s manifestation. Islam does not recognize this. I would, most humbly, submit that this is Islam’s failing. Hinduism recognizes this (that creation is actually a manifestation) and this might explain why my thread (that Allah could not have createWhat on earth do you mean by that? Manifestation? that creation IS God? The creation is a sign for us of what God is capable of doing - His Might, Power, His ability to create out of nothing, the awe and beauty of it all...
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and this might explain why my thread (that Allah could not have created life) does not seem to be largely acceptable in this forum. The thread is not unacceptable, what's unacceptable is the fact that the question has been answered time and time again, even by many non-Muslim members, and you still don't get it!__________________
Click here if you dare!
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Hour Ago
Don't you think this thread has served its purpose?!?!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 25 Minutes Ago
Allah’s creation is only Allah’s manifestation.
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Originally Posted by Malaikah
What on earth do you mean by that? Manifestation? that creation IS God? Allah could not have created life. Many posts by Muslims in this thread have said that Allah is eternally alive. No Muslim would agree to the thesis that Allah does not have life. Therefore Allah could not have created life. Further, He could not have conducted the miracle of creation without life, for creation is essentially about life. Therefore, the only explanation of how 'creation' came about, with the major ingredient, life, never been created, is that Allah manifested as His creation. We speak of the creator as if He is not part of what we call creation because we have not fathomed deep into the miracle of existence. This is probably because our quest of understanding often remains at the level of belief.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Minutes Ago
^ Ur going around in circles mate.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 17 Minutes Ago
Allah, nowoothubillah is NOT a thing!
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Originally Posted by YusufNoor
it's not hard...Depends on how you interpret "all things". I wouldn't say a human being is a thing, yet the Quran suggests so.. Anyway, if an omnipotent being did not create everything there is, its omnipotence could be questioned. And your Allah did not create everything, as he did not create himself.It all rather depends on interpretation of things like omnipotence, everything..
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