Isn't Islam an idol worshiping religion?
I contend that Islam is an idol worshiping religion. When I say this, it would be surmised that I am out to create mischief because it is universally understood that Islam is dead against idol worship. But I do not level this charge to taunt Muslims out of any spite. I love Muslims. They are as human as anyone else. My problem is with the claim of Islam that it does not believe in idol worship.In fact all worship is idol worship. It is not possible to worship except that worship be idol worship. The condition of idol worship is that there be a worshipper and a thing worshiped. Muslims might say that there is no “thing” that a Muslim worships. That what they worship is only the unimaginable power called Allah who created the universe. Be it so, except that they have a need to reduce that unimaginable power to a word “Allah”.
I contend that Islam is an idol worshiping religion. When I say this, it would be surmised that I am out to create mischief because it is universally understood that Islam is dead against idol worship. But I do not level this charge to taunt Muslims out of any spite. I love Muslims. They are as human as anyone else. My problem is with the claim of Islam that it does not believe in idol worship.In fact all worship is idol worship. It is not possible to worship except that worship be idol worship. The condition of idol worship is that there be a worshipper and a thing worshiped. Muslims might say that there is no “thing” that a Muslim worships. That what they worship is only the unimaginable power called Allah who created the universe. Be it so, except that they have a need to reduce that unimaginable power to a word “Allah”.
Allah this word, encompasses all that Allah has revealed of Himself.
If Allah the word can encompass all that Allah has revealed of Himself, then why can't a solid idol do the same of God for the idol-worshipper?
Lol, Lol, Lol, Lol ,Lol, Lol, Lol,If i know get a pen and paper and write Allah it doesnt meanGod is IN THAT WORD, its the meaning of the word, which describesthe way we know God.
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A human canexpress with his mouth what he can conceive by his mind, we cannot even conceivethe creation let alone the creator, so we CANNOT truly express the Greatness ofGod when we say He is the Greatest in words, this doesn't reduce God its the language He created, and is sufficient for Him.
A sound idol, I might say and the Muslim will say I am merely quibbling to provoke.However, my deeper reason to declare Muslims to be the idol worshipers they would rather die than admit is that Islam considers Allah, the creator, as separate from His creation. This means that when we, the creation or creature want to connect with Allah, we have perforce to turn outwards – ever so symbolically seen when the common Muslim raises his vision upwards when he wishes to thank Allah in ordinary conversation. Of course in formal prayers Muslims turn towards Mecca – which becomes the central point to which they direct their prayers.
No we don't direct our prayers to the Kaaba, the Kaaba is a DIRECTION of prayer not an object of worship, this basically shows an organization within the creators creation.
Add to this the fact that the central point contains a huge cube structure, which if the Muslims can get near enough they would lavishly kiss,
your mistaken the prophet did kiss something symbolically to remind us of the next life, but NOT a cube, ill leave that for you to investigate,if i kiss my wife does that mean I'm worshiping her? i think you exaggerated a little with the word lavish.
completes the case that the Muslims are indeed idol worshippers.
Over all I'm very happy for your interest in this issue i pray that to GODthat everyone was like that.
The case becomes all the more apparent when we consider that there is a successful ancient teaching called Adviata which even today continues to be the undercurrent of the oldest religion in the world – Hinduism. Advaita says that God is actually what we essentially are and is not a phenomenon separate from us whom we have to seek for outside and idolize concretely, as Hindu idol-worshippers do - or turn into a faith, as Muslims do.
Sunstone
An interesting point of view. Not sure I agree with you, but interesting. Welcome to the Forum!
not4me
No, Islam isn't an idol worshiping religion. Welcome!
Sunstone
How are you defining "idolatry"?
MidnightBlue
I checked yes because I think that's the correct answer, but I can't imagine any reason for singling Islam out from the other Abrahamic religions. In my view, the idols we make in our minds are every bit as deceptive and illusory as idols made of metal or stone, and almost always more so. I think Islam is idolatrous because Muslims fall into the delusion that the god they imagine corresponds to the Eternal. I think the same applies to all the Abrahamic religions, not just Islam.
I checked yes because I think that's the correct answer, but I can't imagine any reason for singling Islam out from the other Abrahamic religions. In my view, the idols we make in our minds are every bit as deceptive and illusory as idols made of metal or stone, and almost always more so. I think Islam is idolatrous because Muslims fall into the delusion that the god they imagine corresponds to the Eternal. I think the same applies to all the Abrahamic religions, not just Islam.
Salaam
lol... no, Islam isnt an idol worshipping religion, I think you may have it confused with catholic religion.but anyway, the reason why Muslism faceMekka while praying is because Ibrahim(pbuh) built the House of Mekka under God Himself's orders, God sent down a black stone fro mthe heavens to the exact spot that Ibrahim was to build the House at, and this i swhere the black stone came from, scientists have indeed confirmed that teh black stone which sits at the House of God is indeed an out of this world object, it is from space, a meteorite.and to call God Allah, is much more God;ly than anything else, becasue if you knew anything of history, you would understand that Jesus(pbuh) HIMSELF called God by teh name of "Allaha", now was Jesus an idol worshipper for callign God "Allaha"?Jesus called God Allaha, Muslism call God Allah, lol... do you see the resemblance smart guy?anyway, that is where the word Allah even came from, the Aramaic word for God, "Allaha", it has nothing to do with ido lworship, infact, Arab Christians call God "Allah" as well.
lol... no, Islam isnt an idol worshipping religion, I think you may have it confused with catholic religion.but anyway, the reason why Muslism faceMekka while praying is because Ibrahim(pbuh) built the House of Mekka under God Himself's orders, God sent down a black stone fro mthe heavens to the exact spot that Ibrahim was to build the House at, and this i swhere the black stone came from, scientists have indeed confirmed that teh black stone which sits at the House of God is indeed an out of this world object, it is from space, a meteorite.and to call God Allah, is much more God;ly than anything else, becasue if you knew anything of history, you would understand that Jesus(pbuh) HIMSELF called God by teh name of "Allaha", now was Jesus an idol worshipper for callign God "Allaha"?Jesus called God Allaha, Muslism call God Allah, lol... do you see the resemblance smart guy?anyway, that is where the word Allah even came from, the Aramaic word for God, "Allaha", it has nothing to do with ido lworship, infact, Arab Christians call God "Allah" as well.
UnityNow101
The black stone in the Kaaba isn't worshipped by Muslims so far as I know...Muslims simply worship God, the Unseen Creator of the Universe. If they are commiting idolatry, than so are all of the other religions of the world. They seem to be the one abrahamic faith, along with Judaism, which strictly forbids anything that may be seen by others as idol worship..But interesting point of view. I myself am not very knowledgeable concerning the black stone in the Kaaba, so maybe a Muslim could clarify this issue for you.
The black stone in the Kaaba isn't worshipped by Muslims so far as I know...Muslims simply worship God, the Unseen Creator of the Universe. If they are commiting idolatry, than so are all of the other religions of the world. They seem to be the one abrahamic faith, along with Judaism, which strictly forbids anything that may be seen by others as idol worship..But interesting point of view. I myself am not very knowledgeable concerning the black stone in the Kaaba, so maybe a Muslim could clarify this issue for you.
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Idolatry may be defined as supposing that a particular object, concrete or imagined, would intercede to help us or soothe us when we direct our supplications towards it. As per this definition, all religions extant are idolatrous. It is only when we come to the understanding that we are indeed the God we worship that idolatry ceases, because then there is no supplication but only an awakening to the truth.
"may be defined". There is no dispute there, but a loose interpretation like that could apply to just about any religion. Welcome to the forum. If I may, I have two questions for you.1. Why single out the Muslim faith for this discussion?2. What religion, (if any) are you?
1. I was not singling out Islam or anything like that. It just happened to be the subject of what I wanted to write.2. As a Hindu (by which I mean the tradition I was born into), telling you what my religion is is a bit difficult. You see, in the Hindu culture, you have all the freedom to choose any particular path of worship, belief or technique towards God or divinity. Being thus given the freedom, I am simply convincing myself that I am perfect and my circumstances are perfect and whenever I feel otherwise (which was always in the beginning and a lot less nowadays) I meditate (in my own way) to see what I think is the reality. So you can say, as far as identity goes, I am a Hindu. But from the point of view of the ultimate Hindu teachings, identity is the very antithesis of spirituality. Therefore I would say that in passing I am a Hindu, but ultimately I am no one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lava
if somene you loved was dead and if you had his belonging that doesnot make you a idol worshipper. you only look at his belonging and remember his existance. there is a difference between this and asking help from objects.
That which is not you, the subject, is an object. Depending on the object we choose to worship, we have our different religions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman
Allah and it's aramaic predecessor is a descriptor, not a proper name.
You are right. It simply cannot be a proper name because that would be anthropomorphizing our concept of God and it would surely be idolatry. But even as a descriptor, it is our usage to describe our concept of the absolute. And as various are our languages and cultures, we use various words to denote the absolute - God, Allah, Ishwar etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue
In my view, the idols we make in our minds are every bit as deceptive and illusory as idols made of metal or stone
I would say that idols, whether made of stones or of our imagination, are of a kind; but I wouldn't say that as such idols are deceptive or illusory. Idols are aids for us to understand the ultimate. It would become deceptive and illusory only if we are unable to eventually drop the idols and get to the ultimate. Which is why they say that you may be born in a temple but do not die in a temple.
"Even as the fingers of the two hands are equal, so are human beings equal to one another. No one has any right, nor any preference to claim over another. You are brothers"~Prophet Muhammed(PBUH)~
This, quoted by UnityNow101, is refuted by many verses in the Quran which distinctly point to a different fate for the believers (in Islam) and non-believers (in Islam). The brotherhood is restricted to the brotherhood of Islamic believers.
"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy me, the sinner."
Quoted by Mister Emu. That we are sinners is a thought that is the cause of all man's problems. This breeds a sense of lack. And to make up for that lack we keep doing endless things. There is an ancient teaching that says "Tvam Amritasya Putraha", meaning - you are children of immortality. We would free ourselves from all conflicts within our mind if we begin seeing perfection in all our actions as well as our circumstances.
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jamaesi
Looks like the OPer is woefully ignorant of the Sufi way. Oh well. I see the OP's pushing of Hinduism... that seems to be the point of this thread, Islam added as an afterthought.
I still cannot understand why he singled out Muslims. His loose definition could apply to any religion.
penguino
Maybe thats because he didn't know of others! Your knowledge cannot be applied to him, he knows one thing and you know another, doesen't mean he can debate about something he is unaware of.
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