Cordoba
Reading The Qur'an
This article by Dr. Tariq Ramadan, published last Sunday in The New York Time, gives an interesting background on the topic of reading the Qur'anThis is the first part of the article:Reading the Koran Monday 7 January 2008, by Tariq RamadanFor Muslims the Koran stands as the Text of reference, the source and the essence of the message transmitted to humanity by the creator. It is the last of a lengthy series of revelations addressed to humans down through history. It is the Word of God — but it is not God. The Koran makes known, reveals and guides: it is a light that responds to the quest for meaning. The Koran is remembrance of all previous messages, those of Noah and Abraham, of Moses and Jesus. Like them, it reminds and instructs our consciousness: life has meaning, facts are signs.It is the Book of all Muslims the world over. But paradoxically, it is not the first book someone seeking to know Islam should read. (A life of the Prophet or any book presenting Islam would be a better introduction.) For it is both extremely simple and deeply complex. The nature of the spiritual, human, historical and social teachings to be drawn from it can be understood at different levels. The Text is one, but its readings are multiple.For the woman or the man whose heart has made the message of Islam its own, the Koran speaks in a singular way. It is both the Voice and the Path. God speaks to one’s innermost being, to his consciousness, to his heart, and guides him onto the path that leads to knowledge of him, to the meeting with him: “This is the Book, about it there can be no doubt; it is a Path for those who are aware of God.” More than a mere text, it is a traveling companion to be chanted, to be sung or to be heard ....
Reading The Qur'an
This article by Dr. Tariq Ramadan, published last Sunday in The New York Time, gives an interesting background on the topic of reading the Qur'anThis is the first part of the article:Reading the Koran Monday 7 January 2008, by Tariq RamadanFor Muslims the Koran stands as the Text of reference, the source and the essence of the message transmitted to humanity by the creator. It is the last of a lengthy series of revelations addressed to humans down through history. It is the Word of God — but it is not God. The Koran makes known, reveals and guides: it is a light that responds to the quest for meaning. The Koran is remembrance of all previous messages, those of Noah and Abraham, of Moses and Jesus. Like them, it reminds and instructs our consciousness: life has meaning, facts are signs.It is the Book of all Muslims the world over. But paradoxically, it is not the first book someone seeking to know Islam should read. (A life of the Prophet or any book presenting Islam would be a better introduction.) For it is both extremely simple and deeply complex. The nature of the spiritual, human, historical and social teachings to be drawn from it can be understood at different levels. The Text is one, but its readings are multiple.For the woman or the man whose heart has made the message of Islam its own, the Koran speaks in a singular way. It is both the Voice and the Path. God speaks to one’s innermost being, to his consciousness, to his heart, and guides him onto the path that leads to knowledge of him, to the meeting with him: “This is the Book, about it there can be no doubt; it is a Path for those who are aware of God.” More than a mere text, it is a traveling companion to be chanted, to be sung or to be heard ....
Reading the KoranAll the best
Knowledge gives light to the soul
Knowledge gives light to the soul
I have the following queries regarding two sentences from Dr. Tariq Ramadan's quoted portion of the article:1. “It [the Quran] is the last of a lengthy series of revelations addressed to humans down through history." Is there a logical reason why Allah should have ceased to reveal to/communicate with mankind after his magnum opus 'The Quran'?2. “The Text is one, but its readings are multiple.” Can this logic be extended to imply "God is one but His expressions are many?"
Cordoba
Hello Venugopal and thank you for your questions1- The Qur'an is God's final revelation to guide mankind to His path, which He sent to His final Messenger, Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.With The Qur'an, God's guidance is complete and preserved intact without change for all generationsHumanity went through a series of stages, and received God's earlier revelations (including Suhuf Ibrahim, The Torah & The Injeel), and the logic is to follow His last Guidance, like in law where the most recent law abrogates earlier laws2- God is One, and He sent His guidance to mankind through His prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. Earlier scriptures have either been lost or been altered by man. The only Divine revelation which remains intact is His final revelation, The Qur'an
Hello Venugopal and thank you for your questions1- The Qur'an is God's final revelation to guide mankind to His path, which He sent to His final Messenger, Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.With The Qur'an, God's guidance is complete and preserved intact without change for all generationsHumanity went through a series of stages, and received God's earlier revelations (including Suhuf Ibrahim, The Torah & The Injeel), and the logic is to follow His last Guidance, like in law where the most recent law abrogates earlier laws2- God is One, and He sent His guidance to mankind through His prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. Earlier scriptures have either been lost or been altered by man. The only Divine revelation which remains intact is His final revelation, The Qur'an
Dear Cordoba, Why? That's what I'm asking. The whole idea of understanding something is to see the logic of the thing. What is the logic of Islam saying that God has ended his revelations with the Quran when we have had scriptures after the Quran. Adi Granth is the scripture of the Sikh religion, which came into being a thousand years after Islam. The Bahais have their scriptures. Then there are scriptures of various sects, all of which declare that their scriptures are sufficient onto itself to follow God's way. You have probably not understood my second question and have therefore not answered it at all. When you stated that the Quran is one but its readings are multiple, I thought I saw there a paraphrase of the great Hindu insight that what appears as multiple are only the expressions of a single truth. Hence, my question.
Cordoba
God says in The Qur'an that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is His last messengerMuslims believe in The Qur'an and therefore believe this to be trueWe believe that scriptures after the Qur'an are not divine scriptures
God says in The Qur'an that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is His last messengerMuslims believe in The Qur'an and therefore believe this to be trueWe believe that scriptures after the Qur'an are not divine scriptures
Is it sine-qua-non to believe in the Quran to accept what it says is true? Can't the teachings of the Quran stand on its own merit without the prop of faith? If you believe that the Quran can stand on the merit of its own teachings, you should also be able to provide the logic for any assertion the Quran makes. Otherwise the Quran becomes a fairy tale and not a scientific treatise which Muslims often claim it is.
Cordoba
The logic is that with The Qur'an, God's guidance to mankind has been completedThis extract is from chapter 5, where God says in verse 3:"This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion"When Divine Guidance is complete, that is the end of God's RevelationsHope that answers your questionPeace and all the best
Princess Of Peace
I've never really understood the statement "God is one but His expressions are many". Does it mean that all Faiths and uderstandings of God are correct?
You could say so.
If that is the case, i do not believe the Quran is a supporter of this idea. The central idea in Islam is monotheism and that God is eternal, omnipotent, etc. Anything contradicting this is not correct from the point of view of a muslim.
__________________
(Quran 25:63)
The worshippers of the All-Merciful are they who tread gently upon the earth, and when the ignorant address them, they reply, "Peace!"
If that is the case, i do not believe the Quran is a supporter of this idea. The central idea in Islam is monotheism and that God is eternal, omnipotent, etc. Anything contradicting this is not correct from the point of view of a muslim.
__________________
(Quran 25:63)
The worshippers of the All-Merciful are they who tread gently upon the earth, and when the ignorant address them, they reply, "Peace!"
What is actually meant by "There is only one God"? Is this a statement from God to counterpoise those who believe there are many Gods? How is God troubled by those who believe there are many Gods? Could God be subject to anything like jealousy? Or is God simply making a statement of fact to educate mankind - that he is the only God and nobody else can honestly make the claim? If it is a statement of fact, why has He made it necessary that we have to believe it? For example, if it is a fact that the earth gets it light from the sun, all we need to grasp this truth, if it be the truth, is to be made to see the logic of this statement. Where does believe come into the picture? Because the Quran makes it incumbent that we believe there is only one God, it is only confessing that it has no proof to back this statement with logic.
If you're not convinced, God tells us in The Qur'an to say:(For you is your religion, and for me is my religion) (109:6)
All the best
Methinks there is an irony in your response. You say, the Quran says it - full stop. At the same time you are keen to convince the whole world that the Quran is the only religious truth. Is blind believe the way to conviction? Anyway, the Quran also says in 3:85: “And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.” Does this contradict 109:6?
Cordoba
There is no contradiction. Islam is God's final guidance to humanityEach person is free to believe what they find to be moe convincingThe Qur'an is The Truth, but those who are not convinced are free to think otherwiseThat's what free will is all about
When you say each person is free to believe what they find to be more convincing, it seems to be your personal allowance. The Quran apparently does not think so, because it believes in the principle of Apostasy (Irtidad). (In any case the freedom of belief is not a freedom given to non-Muslims by Islam, it is a freedom that has been available to much of non-Muslims even before Islam).
EiNsTeiN
Dear K.Venugopal,This forum is ment to be JUST for information, and no debates are to be done here..So excuse Cordoba if he isn't debating you, cuz he isn't supposed to..Wellcome to the Islam forum, and whatever issue you have and want to debate, we are totally ready for that in the religious debates forum..Thanks again
EiNsTeiN
As I said, many such topics are being debated in the religious debates forum..Waiting to see you there
Abu Khalid
Sometimes, it's hard to convince people of the truth. I can't speak for Cordoba, but i guess all what he is trying to do is to let you decide for yourself what to take and what to leave. He is trying to tell what he believe in despite whether you are convinced by it or not. On the other hand, you want him to convince you to accept what he says which is really difficult because he is a follower of Islam, but not the founder of Islam or anything. He might believe in Islam, but he might not find a proper way which suit you and your mentality, which will lead you to believe in his claims.Regarding the two verses, there is no contradiction. One verse is saying that, for those who doesn't want to believe in Islam, so it's up to them, and the other one is saying that God only accept Islam as a valid religion in case you "want" to believe in him. To make it simple for you, it's like this:1- If you don't believe in Allah, you are free to do so.2- If you want to believe in him, then Allah is showing you how to approach him, which is through the only acceptable faith to Him, Islam.
Abu Khalid
Sometimes, it's hard to convince people of the truth. I can't speak for Cordoba, but i guess all what he is trying to do is to let you decide for yourself what to take and what to leave. He is trying to tell what he believe in despite whether you are convinced by it or not. On the other hand, you want him to convince you to accept what he says which is really difficult because he is a follower of Islam, but not the founder of Islam or anything. He might believe in Islam, but he might not find a proper way which suit you and your mentality, which will lead you to believe in his claims.Regarding the two verses, there is no contradiction. One verse is saying that, for those who doesn't want to believe in Islam, so it's up to them, and the other one is saying that God only accept Islam as a valid religion in case you "want" to believe in him. To make it simple for you, it's like this:1- If you don't believe in Allah, you are free to do so.2- If you want to believe in him, then Allah is showing you how to approach him, which is through the only acceptable faith to Him, Islam.
The concept of apostasy is something else, but this is not the right place to talk about it. You can start its own thread in the Islam DIR if you want.Thanks in advance.
not4me
Allah sent his prophets with miracles to support them. And these supernatural miracles were another thing different from the message itself; medicine of Jesus was different from the Gospel and the stick of Moses was different from the Torah. Therefore, belief in those messages (and that their source was from God), in the first ages, relied basically on the physical miracles. However, these physical miracles didn't keep many people from their disbelief, what kept them from belief was their arrogance and stubbornness not lack of evidence. This was for humanity in its infantile stage, now that humanity should grow to maturity, the approach of the last message to humanity was different from the messages that preceded it. The last message moved from depending on physical miracles for belief to relying on the message itself for belief. Thus the Qur'an with all what it contained; codes of moral, social and political justice and spiritual values, is the message and the miracle at the same time. And this is much deeper and more effective on the human mind than physical miracles unrelated to the core of the message. The Qur'an basically and directly addressed the human mind and returned its significance and regard. Therefore, the first thing that was revealed to the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was "read" declaring the end of the age of supernatural physical miracles and beginning of the age of knowledge and mind as basis for belief. The miracle of Qur'an will last as long as the human mind is respected. Thus there isn't any need to any other message after the Qur'an.
not4me
Allah sent his prophets with miracles to support them. And these supernatural miracles were another thing different from the message itself; medicine of Jesus was different from the Gospel and the stick of Moses was different from the Torah. Therefore, belief in those messages (and that their source was from God), in the first ages, relied basically on the physical miracles. However, these physical miracles didn't keep many people from their disbelief, what kept them from belief was their arrogance and stubbornness not lack of evidence. This was for humanity in its infantile stage, now that humanity should grow to maturity, the approach of the last message to humanity was different from the messages that preceded it. The last message moved from depending on physical miracles for belief to relying on the message itself for belief. Thus the Qur'an with all what it contained; codes of moral, social and political justice and spiritual values, is the message and the miracle at the same time. And this is much deeper and more effective on the human mind than physical miracles unrelated to the core of the message. The Qur'an basically and directly addressed the human mind and returned its significance and regard. Therefore, the first thing that was revealed to the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was "read" declaring the end of the age of supernatural physical miracles and beginning of the age of knowledge and mind as basis for belief. The miracle of Qur'an will last as long as the human mind is respected. Thus there isn't any need to any other message after the Qur'an.
Sorry for trespassing, folks. But because I do not draw boundaries in the matter of spirituality (to be spiritual = to be free) and I see religions as teachings to attain that freedom, I take all religions as my heritage. I see people who are interested in religion, any religion, as fellow travellers to freedom and feel comfortable in their presence. But the problem is that religion, which ought to lead to freedom, often becomes an identity tag and that is when boundaries are drawn. Ideally, every human being ought to be allowed into the precincts of every temple, church and mosque subject to his or her not disturbing the harmony of the place. If by stepping into this forum I have disturbed the harmony of this forum, I apologise. I had only wanted to make the travel to truth a vibrant one. I only wished to say that this ideal that truth can be formulated only in a certain way is ignorance. It is akin to saying that only one language can be the vehicle of expression.
not4me
Islam forum is about understanding the Islamic point of view. Thus anyone wish to contribute here, his aim should be as that.But if you disagree with the point of view of Islam, this is another topic. You have your own philosophy in this life and I as a Muslim have my own.
not4me
Islam forum is about understanding the Islamic point of view. Thus anyone wish to contribute here, his aim should be as that.But if you disagree with the point of view of Islam, this is another topic. You have your own philosophy in this life and I as a Muslim have my own.
