Can u explain this in english?!
Well Allaah has no beginning or end, so you can't branch him under the same things as you've branched life and creations. He is the creator who brought forth the Universe and his beings to dwell in only to worship him.
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You're stating that it doesn't make sense for a creator to have lived before there was anything living, but if Allaah has no beginning or end then that means he's eternal. He is ever-Living, has always lived, and will continue to live.
Allah is immortal. He is neither born and nor does He die. - Akal Purakh.He is indescribable, inestimable, indubitable, infallible, intangible, imperishable, immutable, immortal, immaculate, immanent, unconquerable, unique, formless, fearless, deathless, timeless, ageless, compassionate, omnipresent and creator of all.
If god created everything, did he create himself as well...
Good question: Who created God then?
To start with quote for me an ayat of the Qur'an or an authentic hadith that states "Allah created life".Next define life. Well according to Merriam-Webster life is defined as: life 1 a: the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body b: a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings c: an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction Allah created the creation including all living things. That is not to say that He created the "quality", the "principal", the "force" or the "organismic state" that characterizes living organisms and separates them from the dead.Allah created man from clay and breathed of His Spirit (life) into him Quran 38:71 Behold when your Rabb said to the angels: "I am about to create a man from clay: 72 then when I have fashioned him and breathed of My spirit into him, kneel down and prostrate yourselves before him." Likewise, Jesus fashioned a bird from clay and breathed life into it. Quran 5:110 ...How you were able to make the figure of a bird out of a clay, by My permission, how you breathed into it and changed it into a real bird, by My permission...
Allah's attributes are different from human attributes, therefore to say that 'life' of humans is similar to how Allah is - is totally false. Since there is none like Him.Therefore the statement itself is flawed, since the concept of living has a totally different context and meaning for God compared to humans and the rest of creation.It's like saying - did Allah create speech? Yes, He created speech for humans, and mankind etc. However - His speech is not created since it is His attribute, and He did not create Himself - since He is Eternal without a beginning or end, and this is why He is Perfect, and this is why we take Him and believe in Him as God - since His Perfection implies His Lordship over His creatures who are dependant upon Him.
No one created God, how can an absolute creator have a creator?
He is Eternal without a beginning or end, and this is why He is Perfect, and this is why we take Him and believe in Him as God - since His Perfection implies His Lordship over His creatures who are dependant upon Him while He is dependant upon no other.
He is absolute and supreme, the premise of ''creation'' and ''life'' is not the same for his beings as it is for him. He's the over-seer of all things. If he oversees all things, then that means he has knowledge of all things. He created everything, what is hidden and what is apparent to us. He knows what we reveal and conceal. In all aspects of the word, he is supreme. ''Lam yalid, walam yulad'' - He does not beget, nor is he begotten. (Surah Ikhlas, V:3).
Well If you knew what the defintion of GOD was, you'd answer your own question. Plus I've summed it up very well in my previous post.
What's the islamic reply on this one:God is not created, he did not create himself.At least one thing in existence is not created (by god).God is not the creator of all things.The question itself arouses some new questions, which I'll try to do later..
AhLÄÄM
Quote:
God is not the creator of all things. Are taking the mick?__________________
IbnAbdulHakim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
What's the islamic reply on this one:God is not created, he did not create himself.agreed
Quote:
At least one thing in existence is not created (by god). disagreed
Quote:
God is not the creator of all things.The question itself arouses some new questions, which I'll try to do later.. in order for something to be created it needs a creator. God never needed a creator and was never created.stop confusing yourself young lad.
czgibson
Greetings,Does anyone know why this thread is in the 'Introduce Yourself' section?Peace
uyabano
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamada
To make it easier on ur mind first accept that there is one god! (Nothing is before him, and nothing is after him!)Don't get caught asking questions which will never have an answer to! Ur life will be a mess, because u going to end questioning stuff which will never be answered, NEVER!Well, and here is the part, where our opinions split. I refuse to believe in something/someone whose existence has never been prooven.Science/Evolution is something I can touch and proove, but existance of God, no.In that case, my decision has been made.Peace__________________
Whatsthepoint
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
agreeddisagreedin order for something to be created it needs a creator. God never needed a creator and was never created.The reply does not satisfy me, it confuses me even further.God cannot be the creator of everything and at the same time not be created..
IbnAbdulHakim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
God cannot be the creator of everything and at the same time not be created..do you not realise the difference between a creator and created?EVERYTHING is created, and God is the CREATOR.hope thats clear now
Whatsthepoint
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
do you not realise the difference between a creator and created?EVERYTHING is created, and God is the CREATOR.hope thats clear now God is a part of everything.He is no created.Not everything is created yb God.
Abdul-Raouf
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
It is said in the Quran that Allah created life. If Allah were to have created life, there would have been no life till He created it. If there was no life till He created it, Allah would have been dead till He created life. This is a logical absurdity. Can my brethren in Islam therefore please explain why it is said in the Quran that Allah created life?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
God is a part of everything.thats a hindu belief.
Quote:
He is no created. agreed
Quote:
Not everything is created yb God. Disagreed, God created everything
AhLÄÄM
^ Lol I think ur on something, ur going round in circles. @ whatsthepointGet with it!!God is the Creator. If He is the CREATOR he does not need to be created.He created everything.Comprehende?!
Whatsthepoint
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
thats a hindu belief.I didn't mean it in that way, I know muslims believe he is above creation or soemthing liek that.Let me rephrase it...Everything is everything there is. God is. God is a part of everything.
-Ibn Al Aqwa-
When people begin trying to comprehend things they cannot, they begin confusing themselves and doubts are created. Them doubts are spurred by the shaytaan.just thought id say that...Salaam...__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
^ No he's not.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by -Ibn Al Aqwa-
When people begin trying to comprehend things they cannot, they begin confusing themselves and doubts are created. Them doubts are spurred by the shaytaan.just thought id say that...Salaam...Why is it fine use logic to prove the existence of god, the rightness of islam, the wrongness of all other religions....it seems human logic is fine until it creates confusion.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Everything is everything there is.ok i can accept that as long as you realise God created everything which there is.
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God is. if you mean he exists then yeah
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God is a part of everything. thats hindu belief, but if you mean he created everything, then yeah ! but you cant go up to a chair and think its God just because God created it
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
^ No he's not.Prove it.Why god is not a part of everything there is?everything is a category not the universe.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
ok i can accept that as long as you realise God created everything which there is.if you mean he exists then yeahthats hindu belief, but if you mean he created everything, then yeah ! but you cant go up to a chair and think its God just because God created itI think it's a christian belief as well, but that's not the point.God is, whereas he does not exist...that's a long story.I don't think you see where I'm getting at with everything. Eevrything is not the material word, the universe...it's a category, a group of everything that is, of everything that exists. God is, therefore he is an objext in that group. God is supposed to create everything, yet he did not create at elast one object in the category of everything.You can say god created all created things or everything but himself etc. Whereas God created eevrything does not seem to be a valid statement.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Lol ur just tryna confuse us man.... take ur ideas where they're appreciated, coz they aren't here!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
Lol ur just tryna confuse us man.... take ur ideas where they're appreciated, coz they aren't here!Fine..
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
^ no sis his not confusing me at all, i just cant comprehend how he doesnt see the deep flaws in what his saying.anyway, peace
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
You can say god created all created things or everything but himself etc. Whereas God created eevrything does not seem to be a valid statement.God always was, is and always will beGod created everything and wasnt created.God doesnt need to be a part of his creation.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ no sis his not confusing me at all, i just cant comprehend how he doesnt see the deep flaws in what his saying.Lol, the feeling is mutual.I guess this is how all philosophical debates turn out to be.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I didn't mean it in that way, I know muslims believe he is above creation or soemthing liek that.Let me rephrase it...Everything is everything there is. God is. God is a part of everything.I get you. Guys, what he is trying to say is that his "Everything" also includes God. So if God was not created how come "Everything" is created by God. He is trying to play with words which is rather useless. Lets' rephrase it then "God created almost every single thing in this world" basically implying God didn't not create himself and nor was he created. If somehow I miss you too, than I am sorry.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
God always was, is and always will beGod created everything and wasnt created.God doesnt need to be a part of his creation.Yes, I took it into consideration.Yes, I took it into consideration.I am not talking about the creation, I am talking about everything.Reread the last couple of arguments of mine..
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by hmmm5
I get you. Guys, what he is trying to say is that his "Everything" also includes God. So if God was not created how come "Everything" is created by God. He is trying to play with words which is rather useless. Lets' rephrase it then "God created almost every single thing in this world" basically implying God didn't not create himself and nor was he created. If somehow I miss you too, than I am sorry.No, you got it!I don't think it is useless, logic is all about words.The Quan says many times that Allah is the crator of all things, every thing.Now, all things can mean either everything or all things created..
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I am not talking about the creation, I am talking about everything.Reread the last couple of arguments of mine..how can God be a part of everything when he was never created and is the creator?!its not nice when people play with words like this.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
No, you got it!I don't think it is useless, logic is all about words.The Quan says many times that Allah is the crator of all things, every thing.Now, all things can mean either everything or all things created..it means everything to the exclusion of God himself because God is not a "thing", and we are saying every "thing", yeah i can play with words too dude
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
If god is not the creator of everything, omnicreator, is he still all-powerfull, omnipotent?...
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
how can God be a part of everything when he was never created and is the creator?!its not nice when people play with words like this.We define everything as a group of objects that are, that exists.God is.God is a part of everything.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
If god is not the creator of everything, omnicreator, is he still all-powerfull, omnipotent?...again you are just playing with words.let me ask, do you understand the concept of God being far above all created things?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
it means everything to the exclusion of God himself because God is not a "thing", and we are saying every "thing", yeah i can play with words too dudeIf you didn't notice, I aknowledged that option in my post.What is a thing?The literal translation of teh Quran says God created every thing, not all things, and many if not most islamic sites say he is the creator of everything.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
We define everything as a group of objects that are, that exists.God is.God is a part of everything.nope, you define it as everything, we see God as far above the created, as he is the creator.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
again you are just playing with words.let me ask, do you understand the concept of God being far above all created things?I am not talking about created things, I talking about a logical peculiarity that arouses alongside with the existence of god. There are many others, they may be word plays, tehy may prove that a thing like god cannot exists...I don't know, I am an agnostic.I'm not sure I understand the islamic version. Could you revise it for me?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
nope, you define it as everything, we see God as far above the created, as he is the creator.but god and his creation still form something bigger, if nothing else, they form a sum of god and his creation, god+creation.everything = {god, creation}God created everthing.1. Either god created god2. Or god did not create every element in the group of everything, hence he did not create everything.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
i cant help but feel your mocking now lol,just accept that everything excludes God.accept it dude
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
i cant help but feel your mocking now lol,just accept that everything excludes God.accept it dudesorry, I can't.So, why don't you accept that God IS a part of evrything, dude?Anyway, let's move to another issue...
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
Well Allaah has no beginning or end, so you can't branch him under the same things as you've branched life and creations. He is the creator who brought forth the Universe and his beings to dwell in only to worship him.That Allah existed before life was created is a logical impossibility. If Allah has no begining or end, then life also has no begining or end.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Ladies and gents... please. There is a nonsense in this discussion and it goes in circles. Let's just all accept without mocking each other that we accept the other beliefs, and everything will be fine.Anyway, it is not this thread, neither another one which will prrove to Atheists the existance of God.We will all know it once we die. And please no ridiculous comment now à la 'Yeah, you will burn in hell', 'Oh yes, you will know it *giggle*' or silly smilies just to proove, the other is wrong.Noone is wrong and we are all wrong. Happy now? Let's shake hands...Peace__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
That Allah existed before life was created is a logical impossibility. If Allah has no begining or end, then life also has no begining or end.just because you cant comprehend it doesnt make it false.Allah is infinite, again you wont be able to comprehend that.why dont you concentrate on what you can understand. Slowly develop your understanding, and then come back to this issue?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
You're stating that it doesn't make sense for a creator to have lived before there was anything living, but if Allaah has no beginning or end then that means he's eternal. He is ever-Living, has always lived, and will continue to live.Yes, Allah is ever-living. Then why does the Quran say He created life?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Hi Venu...Who created Shiv ? Do u have answer for that ....?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Allah is immortal. He is neither born and nor does He die. - Akal Purakh.He is indescribable, inestimable, indubitable, infallible, intangible, imperishable, immutable, immortal, immaculate, immanent, unconquerable, unique, formless, fearless, deathless, timeless, ageless, compassionate, omnipresent and creator of all. I agree Allah is immortal. Which means Allah always had life. Then why does the Quran say Allah created life?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
That Allah existed before life was created is a logical impossibility. If Allah has no begining or end, then life also has no begining or end.Where does the Quran state that Allah is alive? Where does it state he created life?It's more likely taht it says Allah exists, which is wrong. Perhaps the arabic version of the Quran says, Allah is, which is right...Perhaps it says something else.It's been said before that Allah did not create life itself, existence itself (which may also be a logical fallacy...), but rather that he created all living things...
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Even I'm confused now, and I'm a Sikh!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
If god created everything, did he create himself as well...A good question.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
I agree Allah is immortal. Which means Allah always had life. Then why does the Quran say Allah created life?He created human life?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
I agree Allah is immortal. Which means Allah always had life. Then why does the Quran say Allah created life?do you think the life of the omnipotent and the life of the created is the same?!its just a case of the supreme creating the lesser...
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by guyabano
We will all know it once we die.Not if I'm right.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
do you think the life of the omnipotent and the life of the created is the same?!its just a case of the supreme creating the lesser...That could be it.but K.Venugopal's questions brings forth a lot of new questions, one of which we were discussing a couple of minutes ago.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
why must life be created?why must Allah exist?you could ask so many questions, and for every question you'll get an answer. Its just grasping that answer which causes you difficulty!
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Here's a nother one that comes to my mind: did god decide to exist?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
why must life be created?why must Allah exist?you could ask so many questions, and for every question you'll get an answer. Its just grasping that answer which causes you difficulty!That's not the proper way to argue.As I can say the same thing for you! But I won't..PS: so far, I have not received a satisfactory answer as to why did god create the creation.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Even I'm confused now, and I'm a Sikh!pfffffff...LOL This thread is already since page 2 ad absurdum__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
^ exactly, all these are questions which can indeed be asked. but they are not objective at all. Whats happened has happened, we should find out as much as we are capable of and then await a time which we have come to accept (ie afterlife) to ask further.I think we have enough proof to get through life, the rest can wait.This is my perspective
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Here's a nother one that comes to my mind: did god decide to exist?Now you're being silly! - There are people that believe, and those that don't. Fair enough. God is the only thing that has existed, and shall exist when we all have departed. He can't be explained, or fathomed. __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ exactly, all these are questions which can indeed be asked. but they are not objective at all. Whats happened has happened, we should find out as much as we are capable of and then await a time which we have come to accept (ie afterlife) to ask further.I think we have enough proof to get through life, the rest can wait.This is my perspectiveMine is different. We're all different!
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by MustafaMc
To start with quote for me an ayat of the Qur'an or an authentic hadith that states "Allah created life".Surah 67.2 of the Quran:YUSUFALI: He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;- PICKTHAL: Who hath created life and death that He may try you which of you is best in conduct; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving, SHAKIR: Who created death and life that He may try you-- which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving,
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
Allah created the creation including all living things. That is not to say that He created the "quality", the "principal", the "force" or the "organismic state" that characterizes living organisms and separates them from the dead.If Allah did not create "quality", the "principal", the "force" or the "organismic state", how did they come about?
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Originally Posted by MustafaMc
Allah created man from clay and breathed of His Spirit (life) into him Quran 38:71 ...My question is not whether Allah created man. My question is, "Did Allah create life?"
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
My question is not whether Allah created man. My question is, "Did Allah create life?"Life = human, life = animals, life = vegetation. - What are you reffering to?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Surah 67.2 of the Quran:YUSUFALI: He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;- PICKTHAL: Who hath created life and death that He may try you which of you is best in conduct; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving, SHAKIR: Who created death and life that He may try you-- which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving,Where does it state he is alive?
Quote:
If Allah did not create "quality", the "principal", the "force" or the "organismic state", how did they come about? It seems the Quran says he did create life, so Mustafa may be wrong..
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by - Qatada -
Allah's attributes are different from human attributes, therefore to say that 'life' of humans is similar to how Allah is - is totally false. Since there is none like Him.Therefore the statement itself is flawed, since the concept of living has a totally different context and meaning for God compared to humans and the rest of creation.Your answer is good. You are saying the 'life' of humans is different from the 'life' of Allah. But does the Quran specifically say so? Or can we imply from anything the Quran says that it is thus? I think to the best of human knowledge, life means just one thing. Is there anything like the life of a human being different from the life of, say, a cat? Mind you, I am not talking about the 'concept of living'. I am talking about life, that which enlivens you and me. Without this life, can Allah be alive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by - Qatada -
It's like saying - did Allah create speech? Yes, He created speech for humans, and mankind etc. However - His speech is not created since it is His attribute, and He did not create Himself - since He is Eternal without a beginning or end, and this is why He is Perfect, and this is why we take Him and believe in Him as God - since His Perfection implies His Lordship over His creatures who are dependant upon Him.The principle is, if something existed, then Allah cannot claim to have created it. Invention yes, but not creation.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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"Did Allah create life?" YES and He created DeathSurah 67.2 of the Quran:YUSUFALI: He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;-__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by - Qatada -
He is Eternal without a beginning or end, and this is why He is Perfect, and [b]this is why we take Him and believe in Him as GodYou do not "take Him and believe in Him as God" because "He is Perfect". You have no means whatsoever to measure the perfection of Allah. You believe in Him only because you are a Muslim.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
^ But we Worship Allaah, who is WORTHY of being worshipped. __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
He is absolute and supreme, the premise of ''creation'' and ''life'' is not the same for his beings as it is for him. He's the over-seer of all things. If he oversees all things, then that means he has knowledge of all things. He created everything, what is hidden and what is apparent to us. He knows what we reveal and conceal. In all aspects of the word, he is supreme. ''Lam yalid, walam yulad'' - He does not beget, nor is he begotten. (Surah Ikhlas, V:3).Can we deny that Allah is alive? We can't say Allah is not alive. We may say Allah is alive, but in a different way. But that's only a difference of quality. But isn't life one and indivisible?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muezzin
To be alive is to have a beginning and an end. Therefore, if something has no beginning and no end, it cannot be said to be alive.So are you saying Allah is dead?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muezzin
I see where you're going with this. I think this lies more in our understanding or misunderstanding of Allah's nature rather than His existence itself.I don't think Allah is really a 'being' in the same way His creations are. I think of it more in terms of a... consciousness. That's the closest word I can think of, and it's still a little off.If you see where I am going, then we are likely to travel together. When you think of Allah in terms of consciousness etc. well, you are treading Hindu grounds. Or maybe Sufi grounds?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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So are you saying Allah is dead? Astagfirullah La Hawla Wa La Quwwa Ta Illa Billa... __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamada
U see if u go along that road and ask these type of questions, u could also continue asking who created that god and who created the one before him and so forth(infinity!)Only if you continue asking questions will you be inspired to meditate. Then you are no longer asking questions, but begining to see.
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Originally Posted by Hamada
To make it easier on ur mind first accept that there is one god!It would be easier on our mind if we at first have an open mind!
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
in order for something to be created it needs a creator. God never needed a creator and was never created.In order for God to create he needs to be alive. If he was alive, then the question of creating life did not arise. Why then did the Quran say that Allah created life?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
it means everything to the exclusion of God himself because God is not a "thing", and we are saying every "thing", yeah i can play with words too dudeI like this one. Ok look guys. Now we have GOD saying in the Qur'an, He created everything. Who is He telling that too? Us human! .........wait I will continue later.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,Does anyone know why this thread is in the 'Introduce Yourself' section?PeaceMy mistake. Do you think I ought to 're-start' the thread elsewhere? I leave it to the moderators.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
EVERYTHING is created, and God is the CREATOR.According to my understanding, God could not have created life.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Are you going to answer 6 PAGES OF POSTS like that?! ^^__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Abdul-Raouf
Hi Venu ... me too from india... nice to meet u...Welcome to LI...Can u please explain me more about your logic behind that sentence....Hi Abdul-Raouf, happy to meet you. Do you think my sentence is logical?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
thats a hindu beliefLet a belief be of any origin. The question is whether the beliefs stand up to logic.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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The question is whether the beliefs stand up to logic. The Hindu faith certanly doesn't! Worshipping idols who cannot help you or themselves whats that about then lol__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Allah is beyond human understanding, if it really was so simple to understand Allah as a being or as a creator, then we wouldn't bo too behind would we. Science hardly knows the complete functioning of the body, there are still some parts of it that are a mystery. There are places in the world which are not understood by humans. There are creatures in the world that we do not know of. There have been creatures in the past which we won't even have heard of...And thats only on this earth... what about the planet and the planets in our solar system, what about the millions of planets in our galaxy - the milky way...then there are the millions of other galaxies - which contain millions of more stars...And thats only what is visible to us, even with telescopes as good as the hubble telescope... we have no idea what lies ahead, behind and on either side of us... Now that we come to it, we have not the slightest clue of even an atoms worth of knowledge that this universe conceals!!And only Allah knows how many more universes that there maybe...which we can't even comprehend...The knowledge of Allah is undefineable... so how can we even TRY to define Allah...
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
He created everything.Comprehende?!Non comprehende! How could He have created life? (I am asking only for the logic. I am not unfairly asking you for the science.)
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
If we knew how he cud have created life, don't you think we would have done it by now!! (not that they're not trying...unsuccessfully...)
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Everything is everything there is. God is. God is a part of everything.A fantastic insight. Quintessential Hinduism.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by -Ibn Al Aqwa-
When people begin trying to comprehend things they cannot, they begin confusing themselves and doubts are created. Them doubts are spurred by the shaytaan.just thought id say that...Salaam...Trying to comprehend things we cannot is valorous. Fear of confusion and doubts should not prevent us from being valiant.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Non comprehende! How could He have created life? (I am asking only for the logic. I am not unfairly asking you for the science.) LOL!!! HAHAHAHA u gimme jokes. Ur asking how the Most Powerful could have created life?! Ur asking how the creator could have created life?! Think about wot ur asking man!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
thats hindu belief, but if you mean he created everything, then yeah ! but you cant go up to a chair and think its God just because God created itGod did not create the chair - man did. But man could not have but for God. Therefore surely there is God in the chair.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
In this regard Prophet Muhammad, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, was reported by Ibn ‘Abbaas to have said:“Reflect on the creation of God but do not reflect on God.”To reflect on the reality of God is to reflect on the infinite. And, as the mind boggles when it reflects on the limits of the finite universe and the galaxies and stars within it, it will be more confounded when it attempts to understand the uncreated. The Prophet, may God praise him, warned that the satanic forces would seek to introduce doubts in the hearts of the believers by raising unanswerable questions about God. Aboo Hurayrah related that God’s Messenger, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, said:“Satan will come to everyone of you and ask: Who created this and that? - until he questions: Who created your Lord? When he comes to that, one should seek refuge in God [say: I affirm my faith in God and His prophets] and avoid [such thoughts].”Found that on a website. source
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
That's not the proper way to argue.As I can say the same thing for you! But I won't..PS: so far, I have not received a satisfactory answer as to why did god create the creation.As for the reason Allah created creation, we muslims have an insanely simple answer to a question most people spend their lives trying to answer, and rarely succeed."I have created the jinn and humankind only for My worship." (Qur'an, 51:56)__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
Lol ur just tryna confuse us man.... take ur ideas where they're appreciated, coz they aren't here!Are you saying all Muslims think alike?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
God did not create the chair - man did. But man could not have but for God. Therefore surely there is God in the chair.Man created the chair, right? So by your reasoning, there is surely man in the chair, yes?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
So are you saying Allah is dead?No, I'm saying he's simply 'not alive' in the way we understand it. For something to be dead, it must once have lived.
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If you see where I am going, then we are likely to travel together. When you think of Allah in terms of consciousness etc. well, you are treading Hindu grounds. Or maybe Sufi grounds? That's just my own personal understanding/sense of it. I don't wish for this to become a sectarian debate. __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
God always was, is and always will beGod created everything and wasnt created.God doesnt need to be a part of his creation.God cannot but be a part of creation for the simple reason that life is not divisible.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by hmmm5
"God created almost every single thing in this world" basically implying God didn't not create himself and nor was he created.And that 'almost every single thing' excludes life. Yet the Quran says God created life. Where is the error?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Abdul-Raouf
Hi Venu...Who created Shiv ? Do u have answer for that ....?Hinduism says, "Truth is one and the wise express it variously." Shiv is an expression of the Truth.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
A fantastic insight. Quintessential Hinduism.Hehe, I wasn't trying to say god resides in chairs, I was merely pointing out taht god, who created everything, would have to be a part fo that everything, which I think is impossible.Now, god may as well reside in chairs, if he exists. I think omnipresence comes with omnipotence.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
And that 'almost every single thing' excludes life. Yet the Quran says God created life. Where is the error?Allah may have been refering to life in an earthly way or he amy have used life as a meatphor for living organisms.God may not be alive in the way we understand it, it's posible he is not alive, who says existence must include life?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
He created human life?It says in the Quran He created life. It also says that he created a human form in clay and blew life into it.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
do you think the life of the omnipotent and the life of the created is the same?!its just a case of the supreme creating the lesser...Life-forms are different - but the life within is one. When forms cease to have life, then the forms are dead. But life can never die. Life may appear to be different when in different forms. But there is only one life.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
As for the reason Allah created creation, we muslims have an insanely simple answer to a question most people spend their lives trying to answer, and rarely succeed."I have created the jinn and humankind only for My worship." (Qur'an, 51:56)God is self-sufficient, yet he wants (or needs, basically the same) worship?If god were self-sufficient, he would not have created anything...he would not have done a single thing, as taht woudl imply there was a reason, a necessity for it, which is in contradiction with a perfect, self-sufficient being.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Life = human, life = animals, life = vegetation. - What are you reffering to?Life = Indian, life = Chinese, life = American - but isn't life life - one and the same?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
YES and He created DeathSurah 67.2 of the Quran:YUSUFALI: He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;-How could Allah have created death? Death is simply the absence of life. Death does not exist. Death cannot exist. To be dead is to cease to exist. This makes the Quranic ayat even more erroneous.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
The Hindu faith certanly doesn't! Worshipping idols who cannot help you or themselves whats that about then lolOne person is an Allah worshipper and another is an idol worshipper. As Allah helps his worshippers, the idols too are helping its worshippers. There are probably more idol worshippers than Allah-worshippers. Without some benefits both camps would have been bereft of worshippers. So let's accept the dictum - to each his own way.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Salam4life
Allah is beyond human understanding, if it really was so simple to understand Allah as a being or as a creator, then we wouldn't bo too behind would we. Science hardly knows the complete functioning of the body, there are still some parts of it that are a mystery. There are places in the world which are not understood by humans. There are creatures in the world that we do not know of. There have been creatures in the past which we won't even have heard of...And thats only on this earth... what about the planet and the planets in our solar system, what about the millions of planets in our galaxy - the milky way...then there are the millions of other galaxies - which contain millions of more stars...And thats only what is visible to us, even with telescopes as good as the hubble telescope... we have no idea what lies ahead, behind and on either side of us... Now that we come to it, we have not the slightest clue of even an atoms worth of knowledge that this universe conceals!!...This human humility is endearing. In fact this humility has been the mother of all the knowledge man has gathered through the innumerable generations he has lived.
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Originally Posted by Salam4life
And only Allah knows how many more universes that there maybe...which we can't even comprehend...The knowledge of Allah is undefineable... so how can we even TRY to define AllahAnd in the midst of humility comes our certainity about Allah. A certainity that tends to arrogance when it is suggested that all knowledge is contained in the Quran.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
LOL!!! HAHAHAHA u gimme jokes. Ur asking how the Most Powerful could have created life?! Ur asking how the creator could have created life?! Think about wot ur asking man!I repeat, I am asking for your logic, not Allah's science.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
God is self-sufficient, yet he wants (or needs, basically the same) worship?If god were self-sufficient, he would not have created anything...he would not have done a single thing, as taht woudl imply there was a reason, a necessity for it, which is in contradiction with a perfect, self-sufficient being.That question is answered quite well here:"Allah has honored humans by creating them to be His vicegerents on earth. He gave us free will, which makes us higher than the angels.But our minds as human beings are limited to the boundaries of human perception. We should bear this in mind and never try to bother ourselves with things that fall outside of our scope of understanding. Allah did not need to create us, and therefore, we may never understand why He did.Yes, Allah is perfect. Yes, He has no need of us; rather, we need Him. When He created us, He did not create us for His own benefit, but for ours. He created us for our advantage, not His.Allah does not need to be worshiped; rather, we need to worship Him. Our need of God stems from our innate need of someone to help us and give us safety.Our purpose of existence on earth is more meaningful than being slaves to worldly gains. There can be no meaningful life better than that prescribed by our Creator, Allah. Every act done according to Allah's way is an act of worship. Man is the beneficiary and Allah is in no need. The Qur’an says what means:*{O mankind! It is you who stand in need of Allah, but Allah is Rich [Free of all wants and needs], Worthy of all praise.}* (Fatir 35:15)We need Allah to feel our own being and to taste the happiness of life. Our need for Him is like the need of a baby for a supporting father and a merciful mother. We need to admit our powerlessness before Him and to trust Him to give us might and power, since He is the source of all might and power. A prophetic tradition reads:“O Allah, I seek refuge in You for Your pleasure and against Your wrath and in Your forgiveness and against Your punishment and in You from You. I cannot praise You as You can praise Yourself.” (Reported by Muslim, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah.)Almighty Allah says what means:*{Allah is He besides Whom there is no god, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsisting by Whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He pleases, His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not, and He is the Most High, the Great.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:255)"source
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
In this regard Prophet Muhammad, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, was reported by Ibn ‘Abbaas to have said:“Reflect on the creation of God but do not reflect on God.”To reflect on the reality of God is to reflect on the infinite. And, as the mind boggles when it reflects on the limits of the finite universe and the galaxies and stars within it, it will be more confounded when it attempts to understand the uncreated. The Prophet, may God praise him, warned that the satanic forces would seek to introduce doubts in the hearts of the believers by raising unanswerable questions about God. Aboo Hurayrah related that God’s Messenger, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, said:“Satan will come to everyone of you and ask: Who created this and that? - until he questions: Who created your Lord? When he comes to that, one should seek refuge in God [say: I affirm my faith in God and His prophets] and avoid [such thoughts].”You have quoted Mohammad. That was what was in Mohammad's mind. I am asking about what is in the Quran. That is what was in God's mind. How could God have claimed to have created life?
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Originally Posted by crayon
As for the reason Allah created creation, we muslims have an insanely simple answer to a question most people spend their lives trying to answer, and rarely succeed."I have created the jinn and humankind only for My worship." (Qur'an, 51:56)The result, Muslims believe it is the greatest thing to be a slave of Allah. Unquestioning, obedient and intolerant to other religions.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
Man created the chair, right? So by your reasoning, there is surely man in the chair, yes?Now-a-days chairs are mass-produced by machines and we might only be interested to know which factory produced it. But even now in villages, when a chair of ornamentation is created, the fame of the carpenter is almost written into it. Why, if I draw a squarish horse and pass it off as drawn by M.F. Hussain, I might make a fast buck. That's because great drawings reflect the artist quite a bit. "To see a World in a Grain of SandAnd a Heaven in a Wild Flower,Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour."-- William Blake, from "Auguries of Innocence"I hope you got the flow of what I am saying.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Allah may have been refering to life in an earthly way or he amy have used life as a meatphor for living organisms.God may not be alive in the way we understand it, it's posible he is not alive, who says existence must include life?Your answer is very satisfactory. Existence includes life, but whether it can exclude life and still exist is a moot point.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by guyabano
Well, and here is the part, where our opinions split. I refuse to believe in something/someone whose existence has never been prooven.Science/Evolution is something I can touch and proove, but existance of God, no.In that case, my decision has been made.PeaceThats right we differ greatly, uhm you are mostly right science you can see and touch! The problem is once u think u have it in your hands, it will slip. Science is to inconsistent!Take my word my friend, go outside and just take a look at everything around u. Take a look at it with hope, and i will swear down that things will make sense! Important thing is to look with hope!Everything just seem to be so perfect for us to live in! So many things we don't even think about.Why do the ingredients we make food with taste good enough for us to eat? They could of tasted horrible!Why does it rain in abudance? Why is the rain not salty?So many things! So little hope....Look at the world with hope and look at things from a different view__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
That question is answered quite well here:"Allah has honored humans by creating them to be His vicegerents on earth. He gave us free will, which makes us higher than the angels.But our minds as human beings are limited to the boundaries of human perception. We should bear this in mind and never try to bother ourselves with things that fall outside of our scope of understanding. Allah did not need to create us, and therefore, we may never understand why He did.Yes, Allah is perfect. Yes, He has no need of us; rather, we need Him. When He created us, He did not create us for His own benefit, but for ours. He created us for our advantage, not His.Allah does not need to be worshiped; rather, we need to worship Him. Our need of God stems from our innate need of someone to help us and give us safety.Our purpose of existence on earth is more meaningful than being slaves to worldly gains. There can be no meaningful life better than that prescribed by our Creator, Allah. Every act done according to Allah's way is an act of worship. Man is the beneficiary and Allah is in no need. The Qur’an says what means:*{O mankind! It is you who stand in need of Allah, but Allah is Rich [Free of all wants and needs], Worthy of all praise.}* (Fatir 35:15)We need Allah to feel our own being and to taste the happiness of life. Our need for Him is like the need of a baby for a supporting father and a merciful mother. We need to admit our powerlessness before Him and to trust Him to give us might and power, since He is the source of all might and power. A prophetic tradition reads:“O Allah, I seek refuge in You for Your pleasure and against Your wrath and in Your forgiveness and against Your punishment and in You from You. I cannot praise You as You can praise Yourself.” (Reported by Muslim, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah.)Almighty Allah says what means:*{Allah is He besides Whom there is no god, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsisting by Whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He pleases, His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not, and He is the Most High, the Great.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:255)"sourceAs I said, no satisfactory response so far.Thanks for trying anyway.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Muezzin
No, I'm saying he's simply 'not alive' in the way we understand it. For something to be dead, it must once have lived.Life is indivisible. Life forms die, but life itself cannot die. Allah did not create life, ALLAH IS LIFE.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
God is self-sufficient, yet he wants (or needs, basically the same) worship?If god were self-sufficient, he would not have created anything...he would not have done a single thing, as taht woudl imply there was a reason, a necessity for it, which is in contradiction with a perfect, self-sufficient being.You've got the seed here of a higher truth. Maybe I will revert to it some other time in some other thread.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Life is indivisible. Life forms die, but life itself cannot die. Allah did not create life, ALLAH IS LIFE.That's a fair view from where you're standing...One question: what are you trying to achieve with this thread?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Allah cannot be comprehended/understood through knowledge only. Allah cannot be understood/comprehended through having Faith.Only when these two come togeter can you get a glimpse of Who Allah is."Allah Guides whomever He Wills without any measures"May Allah Guide us all
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Your answer is very satisfactory. Existence includes life, but whether it can exclude life and still exist is a moot point.Why not? A chair exists yet it is not alive. A virus exists, yet it is not alive. why can't god exixst and be unalive?I know you percieve life as some higher force connected with god... whereas I see life as a quality of living beigns, which did not exists before the first life forms appeared. It's more of a description than anything else... I find ot simialr to the word connection. You've got two adjacent boxes, inbetween them is a connection... which does not exists physically, it's an idea, a description of a certain state.God does not need to be alive in order to be/exist.If I were a muslim, I'd interpret the verse in question to decribe the creation of living organisms (life) and the setting of a limit to their existence (death).
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by 1ummah
Allah cannot be comprehended/understood through knowledge only. Allah cannot be understood/comprehended through having Faith.Only when these two come togeter can you get a glimpse of Who Allah is."Allah Guides whomever He Wills without any measures"May Allah Guide us allthe same with polytheism, trinity etc... that muslims are so keen to disprove with logic.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
We have our own perception of what "life" is. Meaning we think of flesh and blood with all the inner workings of the human body. People of faith view God as "something" else entirely.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
One person is an Allah worshipper and another is an idol worshipper. As Allah helps his worshippers, the idols too are helping its worshippers. There are probably more idol worshippers than Allah-worshippers. Without some benefits both camps would have been bereft of worshippers. So let's accept the dictum - to each his own way.You need to go and read the Vedas. You'll find idolatry is not permissable. So saying idols help the believer is codswallop!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
I agree Allah is immortal. Which means Allah always had life. Then why does the Quran say Allah created life?Can you quote me Surah and ayat? (I read your latter post)
Last edited by MustafaMc; 1 Day Ago at 04:39 AM. Reason: Question was answered later
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Am I off base in my understanding that God's creation is what we call "life"? This isn't as difficult of a question as some are making it out to be, at least in my opinion. What is referred to by "life" is indeed the creation of the Almighty God. Mortal beings made of flesh and bone, whether it be animal or Human. Or if one wants to get more complex, all the variations of life as we know it, from single cell organisms to the complex human body. God would be neither mortal, nor flesh, nor cell. At least that is how I view it.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
That's a fair view from where you're standing...One question: what are you trying to achieve with this thread?I am simply trying to say that when the Quran says Allah created life, there seems to be something amiss there. I am not taking the position that the Quran is wrong. I prefer to believe that we have not come to a proper understanding of what the Quran means. That could be because those folks who interpreted the Quran in the initial period might have been somewhat insular –and chose to reinvent the wheel again, failing to appreciate that, for example, the Hindu culture or the Veda had already trod much grounds on key understanding of the human dilemma. Instead, the approach had been to say that all that came before the Quran is crap and all that comes after the Quran would also be crap. It is probably this attitude that I am questioning.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
The reply does not satisfy me, it confuses me even further.God cannot be the creator of everything and at the same time not be created..Why would he need to be created? God is independent, he doesn't need a creator. He's the absolute creator, nothing is before him or supercedes him. Hope that makes sense.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Yeah, yeah, I get hat.But that makes it impossible for god to be the creator of all things.This is splitting hairs. "All things except himself" Was that really so hard to come up with? __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
Also, God having a creator would entail that he has a beginning (life) and an end (death) and as it has been stated umpteen times, God has none of these attributes.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
It is said in the Quran that Allah created life. If Allah were to have created life, there would have been no life till He created it. If there was no life till He created it, Allah would have been dead till He created life. This is a logical absurdity. Can my brethren in Islam therefore please explain why it is said in the Quran that Allah created life?that the fun with any religion, contradictions dont count.seriously though, id say they mean allah created all other life.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by - Qatada -
He is Eternal without a beginning or end, and this is why He is Perfect,....how can something perfect make something imperfect?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
U see if u go along that road and ask these type of questions, u could also continue asking who created that god and who created the one before him and so forth(infinity!)Doesn't make sense, does it!To make it easier on ur mind first accept that there is one god! (Nothing is before him, and nothing is after him!)Don't get caught asking questions which will never have an answer to! Ur life will be a mess, because u going to end questioning stuff which will never be answered, NEVER!your right about that, god is an arbitrarily made terminator.im worried about your not wanting people to ask questions that you dont have the answer to.Aksing questions is good__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by -Ibn Al Aqwa-
When people begin trying to comprehend things they cannot, they begin confusing themselves and doubts are created. Them doubts are spurred by the shaytaan.just thought id say that...Salaam...when peoplebdegin to trying to learn and to comprehend things they do not understand they grow. The desire to not learn , to close your eyes, is the true evil.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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your right about that, god is an arbitrarily made terminator.im worried about your not wanting people to ask questions that you dont have the answer to.Aksing questions is goodThat is only so in the eyes of a person whos view is limited am afraidI can't see how its free thinking, but then agian who am I to think that?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
^ But we Worship Allaah, who is WORTHY of being worshipped. why is he worthy?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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why is he worthy?He is the creator of all that excists, which makes him well worthy of worshipping!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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If there was no life till He created it, Allah would have been dead till He created life. This is a logical absurdity.yes, i agree it is a logical absurdity. i think it is because you are using your limited human understanding in an attempt to understand something that is beyond understanding.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
One person is an Allah worshipper and another is an idol worshipper. As Allah helps his worshippers, the idols too are helping its worshippers. There are probably more idol worshippers than Allah-worshippers. Without some benefits both camps would have been bereft of worshippers. So let's accept the dictum - to each his own way.AvarAllahNoor already commented on this but i too am surprised at this statement. i've always been told by hindus that they don't worshp the idols - it just looks like it and that they realize the idols themselves do not help people. __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
He is the creator of all that excists, which makes him well worthy of worshipping!no, if god exists, it might get a thanks but thats all.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
He is the creator of all that excists, which makes him well worthy of worshipping!Now this statement makes me jump in again.Why should a God be worthy to be worshipped if he/she/it/thing created us so imperfect? I mean, up from the first breath we take, we are doomed to die. Already oxygen kills us.And in between, we have to suffer so many pains and face so many trials, so I would I worship him/her/it?Peace__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
And that 'almost every single thing' excludes life. Yet the Quran says God created life. Where is the error?The error is in your understanding.
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Your answer is good. You are saying the 'life' of humans is different from the 'life' of Allah. But does the Quran specifically say so?Allah said in the Quran something to the effect of: there is nothing like unto Him.In other words, there is nothing like God.God calls Himself al-Hayy - the Living. That does not mean He lives in the same way that we live, because God already said that nothing is like Him.Put it simply:God = Uncreated, ever-living.God created life = for His creations. He does not have the same life that we have.I hope you get it now, its been 11 pages of discussion on this... it's been stated over and over again, everyone else, even the non-Muslims, have got it...__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by snakelegs
AvarAllahNoor already commented on this but i too am surprised at this statement. i've always been told by hindus that they don't worshp the idols - it just looks like it and that they realize the idols themselves do not help people. Different Sects & Cults in Hinduism, preach their own things. Mostly fabricated to lure the un-educated masses. God alone is worthy of praise. All religions make this clear & practice it.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Day Ago
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Originally Posted by Malaikah
God created life = for His creations. He does not have the same life that we have.Can you tell me whether man and say, cats, have the same life?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Different Sects & Cults in Hinduism, preach their own things. Mostly fabricated to lure the un-educated masses. God alone is worthy of praise. All religions make this clear & practice it.When we say God is worthy of praise, it is almost as if we have sat in judgement and decided God is a worthy fellow. God might not be flattered!
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
Why would he need to be created? God is independent, he doesn't need a creator. He's the absolute creator, nothing is before him or supercedes him. Hope that makes sense.Read the rest of my posts.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah
This is splitting hairs. "All things except himself" Was that really so hard to come up with? It wasn't, I think I said something like it on page 2 or 3.The problem is that the Quran says "all things".
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
You have quoted Mohammad. That was what was in Mohammad's mind. I am asking about what is in the Quran. That is what was in God's mind. How could God have claimed to have created life?The result, Muslims believe it is the greatest thing to be a slave of Allah. Unquestioning, obedient and intolerant to other religions.To be a slave of Allah, you have to obey Allah. Allah commands muslims to be obedient, yes. Unquestioning when it comes to certain questions that our mind can not comprehend. And TOLERANT of other religions. read this.As for the first part of your reply, that IS what was in God's mind. Anything Mohammed peace be upon him said regarding matters of religion were not from his own opinions or ideas; they were revelations by Allah. Allah said in the Quran "Nor does he (Muhammad) speak out of his desire. It is nothing but revelation that is revealed. (Quran 53:3-4)"__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
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Now-a-days chairs are mass-produced by machines and we might only be interested to know which factory produced it. But even now in villages, when a chair of ornamentation is created, the fame of the carpenter is almost written into it. Why, if I draw a squarish horse and pass it off as drawn by M.F. Hussain, I might make a fast buck. That's because great drawings reflect the artist quite a bit. "To see a World in a Grain of SandAnd a Heaven in a Wild Flower,Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour."-- William Blake, from "Auguries of Innocence"I hope you got the flow of what I am saying.So what you meant by "God being present in everything", you did not mean literally? That's how I understood it, I apologize."the fame of the carpenter is almost written into it"But the power and strength of Allah are written into everything he makes. I'm doing high school biology, and I'm astounded at how complicated even the simplest organisms are. And everything in this world is one of a kind, a signature design. Since when has anyone ever been able to make any living organism from thin air?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by ranma1/2
no, if god exists, it might get a thanks but thats all.I'm honestly dumbfounded at how anyone could think this way, even someone who doesn't acknowledge the existence of God. God gave you the ability to see, to hear, to taste, to smell, to touch, to experience emotions. Imagine we had to think about every time we needed to breathe, needed to control our digestion, respiration, hormone secretion, anything. Someone who gave you all of these blessings (and that's just looking at the human body, not the rest of creation), does not deserve to be worshiped? If you really feel that way, I feel sorry for your parents. If you think the God who created you and everything else, what do you feel parents deserve? They raise you, discipline you, feed you, provide you with a home, etc. etc. According to your reasoning, they deserve even less than thanks. You don't have to obey them, or be kind to them, or anything. Truly a sad state.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Can you tell me whether man and say, cats, have the same life?No offense, but I feel as if you're going in circles. Men and cats have distinct attributes given to them by an All-powerful and superior being, ''Allaah''. Allaah has his own distinct attributes. Cats and humans have an end (death) and a beginning(life), whilst Allaah has none of these attributes. Allaah is perfect, and 'alameen (all that exists) are subject to fall into traps and make mistakes unlike Allaah.
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When we say God is worthy of praise, it is almost as if we have sat in judgement and decided God is a worthy fellow. God might not be flattered!So you're telling me the one who created you out of sheer mercy and grace is not worthy of praise? The one who gave you hands to type, and an intellect and intelligence to use does not deserve a thanks? We are told to obey Allaah and our parents as well. Would you say the same for them? The mother who gave birth to you, fed you, clothed you, nurtured you, stayed up until you went to back to sleep, went through 24 hours of labour for..does not deserve a thanks?And the originator of all of the universe does not deserve a thanks for providing you with this wondering human being?Allaah only desires good for his beings, shouldn't you be grateful and show gratitude just for the simple fact that you are alive? Subhan Allaah, we are so much better off than other people. And who provides us with the necessities to keep alive? Who is the originator of all created beings and creations?It said that (I will post the hadeeth later on), that Allaah had 100% mercy. He saved 1% for humanity and 99% for himself. And just with that 1% he has given us so much. Ponder on that.
Last edited by Sister-Ameena*; 23 Hours Ago at 06:19 PM.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Hours Ago
I think the answer has been given, and this thread needs to be closed before it gets out of hand... __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 22 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Can you tell me whether man and say, cats, have the same life?Yeh, I would reckon so. We have a soul, we have a body, body leaves the soul = person dies.Or, if you are going to get picky on me, it could be something like, heart stops working, brain shuts down, soul leaves body, person (or cat) dies.Same can't be said about God! [To be honest, I'm not a 100% sure that animals have souls, but I'm pretty sure, just not a 100%. Either way, your 'life' is not the same as God's 'life'.]__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 20 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
So what you meant by "God being present in everything", you did not mean literally? That's how I understood it, I apologize.I, K.Venugopal, am not present in the chair I made (let's suppose I am a carpenter) because Venugopal is a physical being and a physical being is a matter-being and matter (me) cannot occupy the space another matter (the chair) occupies. Therefore you will not see Venugopal "in the chair", though you could see me "on the chair" if I happen to be seated on the chair. But if you consider the essessense of me (and you also), then we are not merely physical beings. We are also beings of finer properties. So you might "see" me "in the chair" in the sense that you might recognise the chair as my handiwork. However, the difference between me the "creator" of the chair and Allah the creator of the universe is that I did not use myself to create the chair whereas Allah used himself to create the universe. Can you guess the "product" he used to create the universe? Life, of course. Truth is, life is not a thing separate from Allah. Life is Allah and Allah is Life. Therefore the Creator is the Creation and the Creation is the Creator.
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But the power and strength of Allah are written into everything he makes. I'm doing high school biology, and I'm astounded at how complicated even the simplest organisms are. And everything in this world is one of a kind, a signature design. Since when has anyone ever been able to make any living organism from thin air?You have stated exactly what I have concluded above. Aren't we thinking alike?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 19 Hours Ago
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Allah used himself to create the universe".. Could you explain it further?__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 19 Hours Ago
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When we say God is worthy of praise, it is almost as if we have sat in judgement and decided God is a worthy fellow. God might not be flattered!Read Gurbani all shall be made clear! __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 19 Hours Ago
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I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Allah used himself to create the universe".. Could you explain it further?Before creation nothing would have existed except Allah. Therefore creation occurred when the ONE decided to become MANY. He would have said, "Let this be" and "Let that be" and they became. You could say Allah's thoughts or desire or will became creation. We say, "Allah's will" as if Allah and His will are separate. Allah and His will may be different, but they are not separate - just as a dancer and her dance may be different, but you cannot separate the dancer and the dance. Out of the dancer came the dance. The dance ended, the dancer remains. Out of the ocean came the waves and back to the ocean goes the waves. The ocean and the waves are different, but the ocean and the waves are not separate. Likewise out of Allah came the creation and Allah and creation are different, but they are not separate. In the end, we all go back to Allah.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 18 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Malaikah
Yeh, I would reckon so. We have a soul, we have a body, body leaves the soul = person dies.Or, if you are going to get picky on me, it could be something like, heart stops working, brain shuts down, soul leaves body, person (or cat) dies.Same can't be said about God! [To be honest, I'm not a 100% sure that animals have souls, but I'm pretty sure, just not a 100%. Either way, your 'life' is not the same as God's 'life'.]If you agree (or thereabouts) that the thing that enlivens us and the cats is the same thing, call it life, soul, essence or consciousness and further that pain, hunger, fear etc. are the same in man and cat (though each man and each cat might react differently to the same circumstance) then could it not be the same thing that enlivens God? Though God, certainly, reacts differently to the same circumstances He faces. (For if he did not face the same circumstances, how could be all-knowing?) I must confess I have only my petty logic to bank on to see that life is a single indivisible thing and that life is indeed God. So the Quran appears to be per se wrong in saying that Allah created life. Which is why I started this thread – to discuss on whether the Quran actually got it wrong on this.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 18 Hours Ago
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Before creation nothing would have existed except Allah. Therefore creation occurred when the ONE decided to become MANY.He would have said, "Let this be" and "Let that be" and they became. You could say Allah's thoughts or desire or will became creation. We say, "Allah's will" as if Allah and His will are separate. Allah and His will may be different, but they are not separate - just as a dancer and her dance may be different, but you cannot separate the dancer and the dance. Out of the dancer came the dance. The dance ended, the dancer remains. Out of the ocean came the waves and back to the ocean goes the waves. The ocean and the waves are different, but the ocean and the waves are not separate. Likewise out of Allah came the creation and Allah and creation are different, but they are not separate. In the end, we all go back to Allah."Therefore creation occurred when the ONE decided to become MANY."See, I would say creation occurred when ONE decided to create MANY. Not become. Which leads to Allah's will/desire/power/etc. to create everything, not become it. Which leads to the idea that Allah and his creation are different entities.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 18 Hours Ago
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Now this statement makes me jump in again.Why should a God be worthy to be worshipped if he/she/it/thing created us so imperfect? I mean, up from the first breath we take, we are doomed to die. Already oxygen kills us.And in between, we have to suffer so many pains and face so many trials, so I would I worship him/her/it?PeaceI find this well funny! How me the one worships that god has no complains at all, and u who lacks the faith is complaining.All these trials, pains all my problems I see as a blessing that THE ONE LORD who is worthy of worship is testing me! (YES ME !! )While on the other hand u be very depressed when undergoing such trial, u be worried dying from oxygen etc.....U choose; a worry depressed life at times, or a faithfull and hopefull life.I hope u go for the latter one.__________________
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Last edited by Hamada; 18 Hours Ago at 10:34 PM.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 18 Hours Ago
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All these trials, pains all my problems I see as a blessing that THE ONE LORD who is worthy of worship is testing me!This I agree entirely with you. This is the quintessence of spirituality. Actually, I'd go to the extent of saying that problems do not exist at all - everyone, everything and every circumstance is perfect - if only we wake up from our nightmare born of ignorance. And we might even come to realize that we have all along being none other than the Allah we were worshipping. (OK, I concede my last sentence would sound blasphemy to you. I apologize if I hurt you, but as a Hindu, such a teaching is my most precious knowledge.)
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 18 Hours Ago
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"Therefore creation occurred when the ONE decided to become MANY."See, I would say creation occurred when ONE decided to create MANY. Not become. Which leads to Allah's will/desire/power/etc. to create everything, not become it. Which leads to the idea that Allah and his creation are different entities.Since God could not have created life and since he could not have created creation without life (not just He having life, but he needed life for creation) creation actually meant that the Creator became creation. Life cannot create life. Life can only take different forms in an act of creation.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 17 Hours Ago
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Life cannot create life.Says who?Says your human mind and logic. But human mind and logic are unable to comprehend the eternal nature of Allah. There is a limit to what we can understand, the how Allah came to be passes that limit.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 17 Hours Ago
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I find this well funny! How me the one worships that god has no complains at all, and u who lacks the faith is complaining.All these trials, pains all my problems I see as a blessing that THE ONE LORD who is worthy of worship is testing me! (YES ME !! )While on the other hand u be very depressed when undergoing such trial, u be worried dying from oxygen etc.....U choose; a worry depressed life at times, or a faithfull and hopefull life.I hope u go for the latter one.No, I couldn't choose. Why did God not ask me at my birth if I want to follow his path or not? In that case, I would have said NO and I could have been spared from all the trials and pains in life. I could lead a perfect life !I don't worship somebody who give me trials and pains.Oh my...peace__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 17 Hours Ago
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No, I couldn't choose. Why did God not ask me at my birth if I want to follow his path or not? In that case, I would have said NO and I could have been spared from all the trials and pains in life. I could lead a perfect life !I don't worship somebody who give me trials and pains.Oh my...peaceGod is ever so Merciful! If he finds one atom of hope or faith in your heart he will increase that! I am sure God did ask u perhaps not in a direct way u that u imaged.You will go trough the trials of life whether you believe in a god or not! The way you handle the trials however varies greatly if u believe or not.These poor souls commiting suicide because the pressure of life became to severe...An old guy killed him self because he lost his cat! He happens to have no firm believe. Now ask ur self a person with firm faith and believe, would he of done the same? I am pretty sure he would of not.What is your way of life guyabano? __________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 16 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by crayon
Says who?Says your human mind and logic. But human mind and logic are unable to comprehend the eternal nature of Allah. There is a limit to what we can understand, the how Allah came to be passes that limit.Unfortunately we are only humans and we have to live and prosper by our mind and logic. So the human mind and logic asks, "If Allah created life, was He dead till he created life? Or is He still dead?" Since we cannot get an answer from Allah unless we wait till Judgement day, we have to rely on the Quran itself to come up with an answer. Can anyone quote the Quran for a logical answer? I suppose anything else would be mere mortal opinions.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 16 Hours Ago
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal Life cannot create life. What I meant here is that if it was life which created life, then that life would not have had life till its creation, right? So did something dead create life? That's not possible, because the dead is not supposed to be able to do anthing. Therefore, the logical conclusion can only be that life cannot create life - life can only manifest itself in various forms in the act of creation.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 15 Hours Ago
When your Lord said unto the angels “indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority.” They said will you place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare your praise and sanctify you? He {Allah} said, “Indeed, I know that which you do not know.” this is how the human started Allah has no end or begining, his not dead or never be.__________________
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دع الايــــــــام تفــــــعل ماتشاء.وطب نفسا أذا حـــــــكم القضاء.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 15 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
God is ever so Merciful! If he finds one atom of hope or faith in your heart he will increase that! I am sure God did ask u perhaps not in a direct way u that u imaged.You will go trough the trials of life whether you believe in a god or not! The way you handle the trials however varies greatly if u believe or not.These poor souls commiting suicide because the pressure of life became to severe...An old guy killed him self because he lost his cat! He happens to have no firm believe. Now ask ur self a person with firm faith and believe, would he of done the same? I am pretty sure he would of not.What is your way of life guyabano? Are you saying religious people do not comit suicides? Are you saying religious people are not depressed or are less depressed than the non-religious?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 14 Hours Ago
Salam Alakym!Take a look around you from where you sit. You will notice that everything in the room is "made": the walls, the upholstery, the ceiling, the chair where you sit, the booklet you hold in your hand, the glass on the table and countless other details. None of them happen to exist in your room of their own accord. Even the simple loops of the carpet were made by someone: they did not appear spontaneously or by chance.A person who is about to read a book knows that it has been written by an author for a specific reason. It would not even occur to him that this book might have come into being by chance. In the same manner, a person who sees a sculpture has no doubt whatsoever that it was made by a sculptor. And not just works of art: even a few bricks resting on top of one another make one think that they must have been brought to rest just so by someone within a certain plan. Therefore, everywhere where there is an order - either small or big - a founder and protector of this order must also exist. If, one day, somebody came forward and said that raw iron and coal came together to form steel by chance, which in turn constructed the Eiffel Tower again by chance, would not he and those who believed him be regarded as insane?The claim of the theory of evolution, the unique method of denying the existence of God, is no different from this. According to the theory, lifeless atoms formed amino acids by chance, amino acids formed proteins by chance, and finally proteins formed living creatures again by chance. However, the probability of a living creature being formed by coincidence is less than the probability of the Eiffel Tower being formed in the same manner, because even the simplest living cell is more sophisticated than any man-made structure in the world.How is it possible to think that the balance in the world came about by coincidence when the extraordinary harmony of nature is observable even with the naked eye? It is the most unreasonable claim to say that the universe, each point of which suggests the existence of its Creator, has come into being on its own.Therefore, there should be a designer of the balance visible everywhere from our body to the farthest corners of the inconceivably vast universe. So, who is this Creator that ordained everything so subtly and created all?He cannot be any material being present within the universe, because His must be a will that existed before the universe and created the universe therewith. The Almighty Creator is One in Whom everything finds existence, yet Whose existence is without any beginning or end.Religion teaches us the identity of our Creator Whose existence we discover with our reason. Through what He has revealed to us as religion, we know that He is God, the Compassionate and the Merciful, Who created the heavens and the earth from nothing.Although most people have the capability to grasp this fact, they spend their lives unaware of it. When they look at a landscape painting, they wonder who its painter is. Later, they praise the artist at length for his beautiful work of art. Despite the fact that they face numerous originals of the natural world he painted the moment they turn around, they still disregard the existence of God, Who is the only owner of all these beauties. In truth, no lengthy research is needed to understand the existence of God. Even if one of us had to live in a room from the time he was born, countless pieces of evidence in this room alone would be enough for him to grasp the existence of God.The human body so overflows with evidence that it could not be contained in many multi-volumed encyclopaedias. Giving only a few minutes of conscientious thought to it all is enough to understand the existence of God. The present order is protected by God and maintained by Him.The human body is not the only food for thought. Life abides in every square millimetre of the earth, be it observable by men or not. The world overflows with many living beings, from unicellular organisms to plants, from insects to sea animals, and from birds to human beings. If you take a handful of soil and look at it, even therein you can discover manifold living creatures with diverse characteristics. The same is true also for the air you breathe. Even on your skin, there are many living creatures whose names are unknown to you. In the intestines of all living beings are millions of bacteria or unicellular organisms that help digestion. The animal population in the world is many times greater than the human population. When we also consider the plant world, we see that there is not a single spot on the earth where there is no life. All of these creatures that are spread over an area of millions of square kilometres have different body systems, different lives and different contributions to the ecological balance. It is preposterous to claim that all these have come into existence by chance with no aim or purpose. No living being has come to exist through its own accord or effort. No coincidental happening can ever result in such complicated systems.All of this evidence leads us to the conclusion that the universe works with a certain "consciousness". What, then, is the source of this consciousness? Surely it is neither the living nor the non-living beings in it. Nor can they be the ones that maintain the harmony and preserve the order. The existence and glory of God reveals itself in countless proofs in the universe. In fact, there is not even a single man on the earth who will not accept this evident reality from the heart. Yet they still deny it "in iniquity and arrogance, though their souls are convinced thereof" as stated in the Qur'an. (The Qur'an, 27:14)__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 14 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Are you saying religious people do not comit suicides? Are you saying religious people are not depressed or are less depressed than the non-religious?No no no, never would I say that. I am just going with the majoraty (People with no faith or believe are far more likely to kill them self. At the end of the day if ur life is not worth living due what ever kind of problems then suicide could b an optinion because there is no life after death...)Religious people in my eyes r muslims btw! I dnt no about other religions, but ofcourse muslims get depressed some even get as far as suicide!A minoroty though! That will ever get as far as Suicide. They perhaps weren't good muslims at all, otherwise they would of not killed them self.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 14 Hours Ago
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No no no, never would I say that. I am just going with the majoraty (People with no faith or believe are far more likely to kill them self. At the end of the day if ur life is not worth living due what ever kind of problems then suicide could b an optinion because there is no life after death...)Religious people in my eyes r muslims btw! I dnt no about other religions, but ofcourse muslims get depressed some even get as far as suicide!A minoroty though! That will ever get as far as Suicide. They perhaps weren't good muslims at all, otherwise they would of not killed them self.Can you provide evidence/studies to support your claims?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 14 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Can you provide evidence/studies to support your claims?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rateU might not like wikipedia, but it does the job!The (few) muslim countries on there happens to have alot of none muslims!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 13 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rateU might not like wikipedia, but it does the job!The (few) muslim countries on there happens to have alot of none muslims!I'm sorry, but how does this prove atheists are more likely to comit suicide than theists?Are you suggesting the presence of non-muslims causes muslims to be suicidal?
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 13 Hours Ago
No not all, I am saying that muslims themselfs are less likely to commit suicide, it could of been the none muslims.All these countries at the top have a high number of atheists.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 13 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
No not all, I am saying that muslims themselfs are less likely to commit suicide, it could of been the none muslims.All these countries at the top have a high number of atheists.Depends on what you percieve as high. I don't think there's a country in the world where the number of atheists exeeds the number of adherents to the biggest religion in the country. The percentage of muslim population of Khazakstan is greater than the percentage of atheists in any country in the world. The percentage of atheists in Luthania, supposedly the most suicidal country in the world, is lower than that of many countries at the bottom of the list.And a higher percentage of the atheist popualtion is not the only factor common to all countries on top of the list. 8 out of 10 are post socialistic (and socialism is not only about atheism), going trough transition, some are still underdeveloped. There are many factors taht affect people to comit suicides.What I want you to do is to find a psychological study, preferably a couple of tehm, that have showed that atheists are more liekly to comit suicide.
Last edited by Whatsthepoint; 13 Hours Ago at 03:54 AM.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 12 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Hamada
The (few) muslim countries on there happens to have alot of none muslims!the ones with higher muslim rate are not on the list. They may have a very high suicide rate, they just do not make stats about it.Crime, suicides etc by country stats are not the most reliable stats you'll come across, as they only show the amount of reported cases of offences/suicides etc per capita. Not everything gets reported or gets misreported, especially in under developed countries. I think suicide may be one of the best examples of this.
Last edited by Whatsthepoint; 12 Hours Ago at 04:44 AM.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 10 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
What's the islamic reply on this one:it's just my reply...God is not created, he did not create himself.Allah is not created, that is correct...At least one thing in existence is not created (by god).Allah is above the realm of our existence, everything that exists as creation was created by Allah...God is not the creator of all things.Allah, nowoothubillah is NOT a thing!The question itself arouses some new questions, which I'll try to do later..it's not hard...__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 4 Hours Ago
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Originally Posted by Dr.Trax
All of this evidence leads us to the conclusion that the universe works with a certain "consciousness". What, then, is the source of this consciousness? Surely it is neither the living nor the non-living beings in it.We see the incredible complexity as well as the perfection of creation and wonder who created it all. We say a certain Allah created it and do not allow ourselves to wonder who created Allah. We are satisfied with the answer that Allah always existed. If Allah, a posited creator, can always exist, why could creation not have always existed? When you say the universe works with a certain "consciousness", are you saying that the universe is conscious to a certain extent? Which would be to say that we, as parts of the universe, are also conscious to a certain extent. Of course, we are. So can we now assume that you and I, as individuals, have the 'consciousness' that the universe has in a greater measure? If you agree this far, it might not be difficult to see that total consciousness resides in that which is beyond the universe. We might call the total consciousness Allah. The best way, therefore, to know Allah is to begin with our consciousness and connect to the consciousness of Allah. This is the course open through meditation. And it also means that we, who are in essence our consciousness, are no different from Allah, who is consciousness itself. We, Allah and us, are of a kind. We are sparks while Allah is the fire. In short, we, the creation, are in essence no different from Allah. We have to know ourselves to know Allah. Allah’s creation is only Allah’s manifestation. Islam does not recognize this. I would, most humbly, submit that this is Islam’s failing. Hinduism recognizes this (that creation is actually a manifestation) and this might explain why my thread (that Allah could not have create
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 2 Hours Ago
My above post should continue: . . . and this might explain why my thread (that Allah could not have created life) does not seem to be largely acceptable in this forum.
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Hour Ago
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Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Allah’s creation is only Allah’s manifestation. Islam does not recognize this. I would, most humbly, submit that this is Islam’s failing. Hinduism recognizes this (that creation is actually a manifestation) and this might explain why my thread (that Allah could not have createWhat on earth do you mean by that? Manifestation? that creation IS God? The creation is a sign for us of what God is capable of doing - His Might, Power, His ability to create out of nothing, the awe and beauty of it all...
Quote:
and this might explain why my thread (that Allah could not have created life) does not seem to be largely acceptable in this forum. The thread is not unacceptable, what's unacceptable is the fact that the question has been answered time and time again, even by many non-Muslim members, and you still don't get it!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 1 Hour Ago
Don't you think this thread has served its purpose?!?!__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 25 Minutes Ago
Allah’s creation is only Allah’s manifestation.
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Originally Posted by Malaikah
What on earth do you mean by that? Manifestation? that creation IS God? Allah could not have created life. Many posts by Muslims in this thread have said that Allah is eternally alive. No Muslim would agree to the thesis that Allah does not have life. Therefore Allah could not have created life. Further, He could not have conducted the miracle of creation without life, for creation is essentially about life. Therefore, the only explanation of how 'creation' came about, with the major ingredient, life, never been created, is that Allah manifested as His creation. We speak of the creator as if He is not part of what we call creation because we have not fathomed deep into the miracle of existence. This is probably because our quest of understanding often remains at the level of belief.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 23 Minutes Ago
^ Ur going around in circles mate.__________________
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Re: Did Allah create life? - 17 Minutes Ago
Allah, nowoothubillah is NOT a thing!
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Originally Posted by YusufNoor
it's not hard...Depends on how you interpret "all things". I wouldn't say a human being is a thing, yet the Quran suggests so.. Anyway, if an omnipotent being did not create everything there is, its omnipotence could be questioned. And your Allah did not create everything, as he did not create himself.It all rather depends on interpretation of things like omnipotence, everything..
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